QuarkVSInDesign.com Archive

The Following is Archived and Preserved from QuarkVSInDesign.com, 2003–2009.

Quark Deals for Designers of Tomorrow, While Price-Gouging Designers of Today

Quark inks deal with Scholastic to pursue Australia’s designers of the future, but price-gouged designers of today–and tomorrow–prefer InDesign.

Today Scholasitc Australia, a ful­ly owned sub­sidiary of New York-based children’s pub­lish­ing and me­dia com­pa­ny Scholastic Inc, an­nounced that it has reached an agree­ment with Denver, Colo.-based Quark, Inc. Scholastic’s Media & Technology di­vi­sion will dis­trib­ute the com­plete range of QuarkXPress re­tail, ed­u­ca­tion, and vol­ume li­cense prod­ucts for both Mac and Windows through na­tion­al Australian re­seller chan­nels serv­ing the pro­fes­sion­al, re­tail, and ed­u­ca­tion markets.

Designers of the Future

Scholastic will as­sist Quark in de­vel­op­ing and de­ploy­ing mar­ket­ing com­mu­ni­ca­tions and cus­tomer pro­grams, co­or­di­na­tion of train­ing and sem­i­nars, and de­vel­op­ment of school and ter­tiary ed­u­ca­tions chan­nels for Quark’s prod­ucts. The deal al­so has Scholastic pro­vid­ing li­cens­ing sup­port through cus­tomer ser­vices and ac­count man­age­ment con­tact with re­sellers na­tion­al­ly. Advertising and pro­mo­tion­al sup­port will be pro­vid­ed through the company’s MDF program.

Scholastic’s Media & Technology Division spe­cialis­es in value-added soft­ware dis­tri­b­u­tion and mar­ket­ing ser­vices cov­er­ing de­sign, an­i­ma­tion , web- pub­lish­ing, and Speech soft­ware prod­ucts from mar­ket lead­ers Autodesk, Autodesk me­dia & en­ter­tain­ment, Macromedia, WACOM , Scansoft, and Curious Labs. The com­pa­ny is based on the New South Wales Central Coast, with a na­tion­al dis­tri­b­u­tion net­work cov­er­ing over 1000 re­tail stores, re­sellers, and ed­u­ca­tion­al specialists.

“Scholastic’s strength in the Australian ed­u­ca­tion chan­nel is ex­treme­ly im­por­tant to Quark,” said Gyan Prakash, vice pres­i­dent of sales for the Asia, Middle East, and Africa re­gions of Quark. “Getting QuarkXPress in­to class­rooms through­out Australia, with the help of Scholastic, means that QuarkXPress will be wide­ly used and will al­so give Quark in­sight in­to what the de­sign­ers of the fu­ture want and need in their tools.”

Designers of Today & Tomorrow

While Quark pur­sues Australia’s de­sign­ers of fu­ture gen­er­a­tions, the cur­rent and next gen­er­a­tion of Australia’s de­sign­ers are al­ready aban­don­ing an over-priced XPress for the greater free­dom and flex­i­bil­i­ty of InDesign.

Print 21, a news site de­vot­ed to the print­ing in­dus­try in Australia and New Zealand, re­cent­ly asked its read­ers which they pre­fer, QuarkXPress or InDesign. Wednesday, Print 21 pub­lished a se­lec­tion of re­spons­es.

John Lander, man­ag­ing di­rec­tor for Print Creations Bendigo writes:

This year we bit the bul­let and switched from Quark to InDesign along with OSX. …My staff…were all ex­treme­ly pro Quark and ad­verse to change. We are now six months on and all six staff say they would hate to go back to Quark as it is a vast­ly in­fe­ri­or product. 

From a per­son­al point of view it was a plea­sure to leave Quark and their ar­ro­gance behind. 

Sarah Jones, a de­sign & pre­press teacher at RMIT’s International Centre of Graphic Technology says:

Almost every full-time stu­dent prefers InDesign over Quark, it is a much more com­fort­able for­mat for them, and this seems to be the on­ly rea­son why. These stu­dents will go out of their way not to use Quark, it is not prac­ti­cal to them. …Currently, it seems dif­fi­cult for them to get jobs as most of them are un­able to use Quark to in­dus­try stan­dard. Yet, the ma­jor­i­ty of ap­pren­tices pre­fer Quark (as they use it in the workplace) 

As most peo­ple head­ing in­to our area are not from ap­pren­tice­ship back­grounds, I can see that even­tu­al­ly InDesign will win over.

From Kym Flannery, ad­ver­tis­ing & de­sign re­cruit­ment con­sul­tant, Asphar & Associates:

In my new ca­reer in Recruitment for the Advertising, Design and Print Industry I have found most, 65% plus, of our clients are re­quest­ing InDesign ex­pe­ri­ence as a stan­dard skill set. I know of at least one train­ing com­pa­ny that has start­ed can­celling Quark cours­es, while their InDesign cours­es are booked back to back…All in all I think un­less the Quark com­pa­ny quick­ly makes a ma­jor cul­ture shift, they will lose this race. The on­ly re­al is­sues with InDesign are more ‘pi­lot er­ror’ is­sues than true faults with this pack­age. We live in in­ter­est­ing times.

Will the Scholastic deal, clear­ly a wise and foward-looking strat­e­gy for Quark, be enough to en­sure QuarkXPress use among fu­ture gen­er­a­tions of Aussie designers?

Costs of Designing Business

Even as U.S. XPress users hail the free tech­ni­cal sup­port, im­proved cus­tomer ser­vice, and com­pet­i­tive pric­ing en­act­ed by for­mer Quark, Inc. CEO Kamar Aulakh dur­ing the past 18 months, out­side the U.S., the rest of the world is still wait­ing on hold.

In the United States, QuarkXPress 6.5 re­tails for US$995 (cur­rent­ly on pro­mo­tion­al pric­ing of $699). With today’s con­ver­sion rates, QuarkXPress 6.5 costs Australians ex­act­ly three times what Americans pay–1769 or US$2,112.

To put those prices in con­text, we checked some oth­er mission-critical ap­pli­ca­tions most cre­ative pro­fes­sion­als buy.

  • Adobe Creative Suite 2 Premium Edition (InDesign, Photoshop, Illustrator, GoLive, Acrobat 7 Professional, Version Cue, and the Adobe Bridge)
    Retail in United States: US$1,199
    Retail in Australia: 1370 (US$1635)
  • Microsoft Office for Mac 2004 Standard Edition (Word, Excel, PowerPoint, Entourage)
    Retail in United States: US$399
    Retail in Australia: 402 (US$480)
  • Macromedia Dreamweaver MX 2004
    Retail in United States: US$399
    Retail in Australia: 363 (US$433)
  • Corel Painter IX
    Retail in United States: US$429
    Retail in Australia: 402 (US$480)

Although soft­ware prices for Australia are some­what high­er than in the United States, all are less than a 50% in­crease. But, at triple the price, QuarkXPress 6.5 has a greater than 200% markup.

The re­tail price dif­fer­ences are of­ten at­trib­uted to the re­quire­ment for Australian soft­ware to be writ­ten in, and sup­port dictionary-based text fuc­tions such as spelling and hy­phen­ation ad­her­ing to, International English or UK English in­stead of US English. That re­quire­ment af­fects desk­top ap­pli­ca­tions to vary­ing degrees–from the sim­ple need of al­ter­nate ASCII dic­tio­nary files, to sig­nif­i­cant changes in the code­base. However, be­fore writ­ing off lan­guage dif­fer­ences as jus­ti­fi­ca­tion for price goug­ing, it’s im­por­tant to rec­og­nize that all of the above soft­ware has the same requirement–even Adobe’s Creative Suite 2 Premium Edition, whose InDesign, Illustrator, Photoshop, GoLive, and Acrobat all have spell-checkers and per­form oth­er language-based text handling.

From the van­tage point of Quark’s world head­quar­ters in Denver, Colorado, it looks like the peo­ple aren’t the on­ly thing upside-down in Australia.

Is Quark re­al­ly woo­ing Australian cre­atives, or should we use an­oth­er verb that rhymes with wooing?

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16 Responses

  1. Samuel says:

    I went through the above ar­ti­cle, well the feel­ing that I got is that Pariah, Jeff and Samuel you all are do­ing the Bill Troop act for Adobe. Well you all went up and crit­i­cized his pro Quark in­stance, I don’t know what should I say for you all. Well I have got Xpress v7 pre-release and I am do­ing analy­sis, soon I will come up with fair (and I mean it) com­par­i­sion be­tween IndesignCS and V7. I re­quest you all to see the oth­er side of the coin too.

  2. Jeff says:

    Pariah called Quark 7 “un­sexy, but strong” in a head­line pre­view­ing Quark 7. That’s not an anti-Quark re­mark. You ob­vi­ous­ly have a hard time hear­ing neg­a­tive press about Quark, but that doesn’t give you the right to ques­tion anyone’s ob­jec­tiv­i­ty (es­pe­cial­ly those of us who haven’t post­ed very of­ten). It’s in­sult­ing – at least to me – to be com­pared to a hack like Bill Troop.

    The fact of the mat­ter here is that, whether you like it or not, Pariah rais­es two valid points (one in fa­vor of Quark and one not). Quark has been fi­nan­cial­ly goug­ing users who need to work in mul­ti­ple lan­guages (mean­ing the ma­jor­i­ty of the rest of the world) with XPress Passport for years, typ­i­cal of their ar­ro­gance. It was, how­ev­er, a wise move to get in­to the ed­u­ca­tion mar­ket. I’ve on­ly been out of school for a year. The ma­jor­i­ty of my class­mates pre­fer InDesign be­cause we don’t have the years in­vest­ed in Quark that our more ex­pe­ri­enced coun­ter­parts have. Both com­pa­nies I in­terned with and my cur­rent em­ploy­er switched to InDesign (based in part on dis­cus­sions I was a part of be­cause I had ex­ten­sive ex­pe­ri­ence with the pro­gram), and none of the 3 have so much as peeked over their shoul­der since. Quark is wise to go af­ter new users. Whether or not it will be enough to help them re­mains to be seen.

    If you’re go­ing to com­pare InDesign to Quark, the on­ly rel­e­vant com­par­i­son is with InDesign CS2 (30-day, FULLY FUNCTIONAL tri­al down­load now avail­able). InDesign CS is ir­rel­e­vant lega­cy soft­ware. Bill Troop’s biggest mis­take was to com­pare Quark 7 (soft­ware with no con­crete re­lease date) with an un­named but OBVIOUSLY lega­cy ver­sion of InDesign (he tout­ed fea­tures that were avail­able in CS2 as ex­clu­sive to Quark) – ir­rel­e­vant, con­sid­er­ing CS2 had been an­nounced over a month pri­or. Don’t make the same mis­take he did.

    Analyze to your heart’s con­tent, but InDesign CS is ir­rel­e­vant. I have CS2, and it just paid for it­self hand-over-fist with a very mas­sive project I had to do over the hol­i­day week­end. Even my slight­ly skep­ti­cal Creative Director said we would nev­er have got­ten a doc­u­ment as im­pres­sive in the time we had out of Quark.

    Can you re­lease any de­tails about this pre­re­lease you have? I’d be very sur­prised if you didn’t have to sign an NDA as part of the test­ing process. If you ex­pect any­one oth­er than Quark fun­da­men­tal­ists to take you se­ri­ous­ly, you’re go­ing to have to pro­vide some­thing more than a “trust me, I’ve seen it and it’s great” or re­hash of already-announced fea­tures. You’re al­so go­ing to have to com­pare it to InDesign’s cur­rent re­lease. I don’t see how you’re analy­sis is rel­e­vant otherwise.

    If you like Quark bet­ter, just say so. You cer­tain­ly don’t have to jus­ti­fy your de­ci­sion to me or any­one else. I’m just dis­cussing this for the sake of dis­cus­sion. And for everyone’s sake, let Bill Troop go. Nothing he’s said will ever win you any points.

  3. I’ve want­ed to fol­low up to this, but re­al­ly, Jeff said it bet­ter than even I could.

    Jeff, you “get” what we’re try­ing to do here. Samuel, to be blunt, you don’t.

    Still, I’d wel­come some in­formed com­men­tary and in­for­ma­tion on what XPress 7 can and will do for the lay­out artist. I’m ea­ger to see what­ev­er you have, and await what­ev­er it is you have to say about V7 with great interest.

  4. Samuel says:

    Well guys, I worked re­al­ly hard to see what v7 has in of­fer for us, I can’t dis­close the ac­tu­al fea­ture set of v7 be­cause I am bound not to do that. Well I com­pared fea­tures of both, and as­signed cer­tain marks to both the soft­wares, this was re­al­ly a very ex­haus­tive com­par­i­sion. In the end out of to­tal 120 marks, InCs got 63 and V7 got 96. InCS lagged be­hind since it has some fea­tures miss­ing which V7 has in of­fer­ing. For me hold­ing the breath has wroked well, and I think v7 will make many users hap­py. Well I am dieing to dis­close some of its killing features,but I am bound. Well For Jeff and Sameul, I can bet that this v7 will make you think. Whatever I have writ­ten here, I stand by it.

    I have gone through Jeff’s last com­ment and will come up with an an­swer be­cause I couldn’t find time to an­swer it.If you re­al­ly beleive in de­bat­ing mer­its of a soft­ware then I hope you for sure will find more mer­its that de­mer­its in v7. Well let me tell you that I am not pro Quark and Anti Adobe, in­fact I al­so planned to shift to Indesign but V7’s an­nounced fea­ture set re­al­ly im­pressed me, thats why I just stopped. And now I can say that this stop was re­al­ly worth.

  5. I can see you worked very hard to pre­pare a very earnest analy­sis of QuarkXPress as com­pared with InDesign. This is to your credit. 

    However, blunt­ly, it’s not of much use.

    While it’s praise­wor­thy that you as­signed scores to var­i­ous fea­tures and rat­ed them ac­cord­ing­ly (I’m will­ing to cut you the ben­e­fit of the doubt that you were as im­par­tial as could be), since you can’t tell us what it was you val­ued and how you val­ued them, those num­bers are just that…numbers.

    Moreover, since we have no way of know­ing what you rat­ed, how you rat­ed it, or why, I have to stip­u­late that I’m giv­ing you the ben­e­fit of the doubt on impartiality.

    Another trou­bling point is, un­less I mis­read your text or you mistyped, you are still com­par­ing the no­tion­al V7 with InDesign CS. As Jeff point­ed out, the valid com­par­i­son is against CS2, not CS! The rea­sons for that should be self-evident, but in case they aren’t, here’s two points to cons­der: CS couldn’t ac­cess PSD lay­ers, but CS2 can, thus elmi­nat­ing the ad­van­tage QuarkVista gave XPress, and CS is no longer the cur­rent ver­sion anyway.

    QuarkXPress 7 is, pre­sum­ably, meant to com­pete with InDesign CS2…not InDesign CS. You may as well com­pare XPress 5 to InDesign 1.5….or ap­ples to oranges….

    Unless you are will­ing to clue us on what it is you rat­ed, there’s no point in it; Statements such as “I hope you will for sure find more mer­its than de­mer­its in v7” have lit­tle mean­ing if we can’t talk about what it is you see that is meritworthy.

    And to the state­ment “Well For Jeff and Sameul, I can bet that this v7 will make you think” the on­ly pos­si­ble an­swer is “Well, yes, but as you can see above, not what you want­ed me to.”

  6. Jeff says:

    I just did a com­par­i­son of my own, and by a score of 3,492,176 to 8, I’ve de­ter­mined Curling shouldn’t be an Olympic sport. Like SJK, I don’t mean to be blunt, but sub­tle­ty ob­vi­ous­ly isn’t get­ting through to you. For rea­sons I’ve al­ready out­lined, this com­par­i­son and $1.50 will get you a cup of coffee.

    If you need­ed to reaf­firm your de­ci­sion to stick with Quark by do­ing this com­par­i­son, then I hope you got out of it what you want­ed to, but your “re­sults” are noth­ing but ab­stract num­bers to the rest of us. Quantifying your ex­pe­ri­ence doesn’t make it any more mean­ing­ful. Page lay­out is a vast in­dus­try serv­ing many peo­ple. Different work­flows will be more ef­fi­cient with dif­fer­ent pro­grams. What you gave a 63 I might give a 163. My work­flow is more ef­fi­cient with InDesign, and I ar­gue that more work­flows would be if they gave they gave the pro­gram a fair shot.

    In the end, the on­ly num­ber that mat­ters is the num­ber of hours it takes you to do a project (time is mon­ey). I save close to a dozen hours a week in a Quark-free work­flow (no ex­ag­ger­a­tion). In or­der to make wait­ing for 7 worth it – when­ev­er it does ac­tu­al­ly come out – it would have to make up for all the time I lost by stick­ing with Quark 6.5 in­stead of switch­ing to InDesign CS2 when it came out at the end of April. That’s vir­tu­al­ly im­pos­si­ble, con­sid­er­ing Quark 7 is al­ready al­most 3 months be­hind and we don’t even have a re­lease date yet.

    There’s no point in dis­cussing Quark 7 with­out hav­ing some­thing con­crete to dis­cuss. This doesn’t fit that criteria.

  7. aussi bref says:

    I won­der if Samuel would still stick with Quark Xpress if he had to pay 3 times the price of Indesign as we do in Australia. Quark’s pric­ing pol­i­cy has been on the nose here for so long, that, as soon as Indesign 2 came out, de­sign­ers in this here start­ed switch­ing in droves. We don’t just dis­like Quark we loathe the com­pa­ny with a passion!

  8. Samuel says:

    Yes, I agree that the com­par­i­sions that I did might ap­pear just ab­stract num­bers as there’s no ex­pla­na­tion about it. But let me re­as­sure you that let Quark come out with all fea­tures, I will come up with the de­tails of the points giv­en to both the soft­wares by me and where Quark did score. I will soon come up with the scores that I gave to the fea­tures al­ready an­nounced by Quark. I think it will prove my point a bit.

  9. Samuel says:

    Here it goes…….
    Feature Quark IndesignCS3
    JDF 4 0
    Transparency 4(Color Level) 2(Object Level)
    Vista 4 0
    Picture Background 4(Just one click) 2(very inefficient)

  10. Samuel says:

    Its not readable….so do­ing it again.
    JDF /4/0
    Transparency/4(Color Level)/2(Object Level)
    Picture Background/4(Just one click)/2(very inefficient)

  11. I’ve read Jeff’s com­ments above a cou­ple of times since he post­ed them, but now it strikes me that I would like to clar­i­fy just one lit­tle point:
    “Pariah called Quark 7 â€œunsexy, but strong” in a head­line pre­view­ing Quark 7.”
    Actually, I called the VDP, JDF, and XML fea­tures un­sexy but strong, re­fer­ring to the fact that, while amaz­ing­ly strong and much need­ed tech­nolo­gies, they’re not as sexy as trans­paren­cy or OpenType sup­port, which were the pre­vi­ous­ly di­vulged fea­tures. Because Quark does not give pre­view be­tas to pe­ri­od­i­cal writ­ers and ed­i­tors, I’ve not seen Quark 7 and could not make a judge­ment on its over­all sex ap­peal or strength.

    By the way, I sin­cere­ly thank you, Jeff, for your com­men­tary in this thread. As Samuel J. Klein not­ed, you get what we do here at Quark VS InDesign​.com, and we gen­uine­ly ap­pre­ci­ate that.

  12. Samuel,

    Your tab-aligned, mono­space da­ta isn’t go­ing to work in plain text on the Web. XHTML al­lows nei­ther tabs nor more than a sin­gle con­tigu­ous space char­ac­ter to dis­play. I changed it to use vir­gules (slash­es) to sep­a­rate your fea­tures and scores–which is not to say I en­dorse or even un­der­stand what you wrote; I sim­ply made it readable.

    Regardless of that, your num­bers are con­fus­ing and out of con­text. Clearly you’ve put in a great deal of ef­fort and have a good grasp of both pro­grams, but with­out a frame of ref­er­ence it’s dif­fi­cult for any­one to put your num­bers in­to prag­mat­ic thought. 

    Everyone can talk about XPress 7 in ab­stracts all he wants, but none of it will make sense un­til the NDAs lift and the prod­uct re­leas­es. At which point, of course, Quark VS InDesign​.com will pro­vide a thor­ough, fair, point-for-point com­par­i­son be­tween QuarkXPress 7 and InDesign CS2.

    Until every­one can see XPress 7 for him­self, claims of XPress 7’s su­pe­ri­or­i­ty to any­thing are un­prov­able and, frankly, bor­ing rhetoric.

  13. Following Samuel:

    Feature Quark IndesignCS3

    It’s CS2, not CS3. In terms of ver­sions, CS2 is InDesign Version 4. CS was InDesign Version 3. Which ver­sion are you talk­ing about?
    Samuel, again:


    Which I read as rat­ing the still-notional XPress 7 with a score of 4 for hav­ing QuarkVista, and InDesign ver­sion (what­ev­er) 0 for not hav­ing QuarkVista.

    That is an ab­surd rat­ing, for a cou­ple of rea­sons. Not on­ly does the cur­rent ver­sion of InDesign (CS2 or Version 4) al­low ac­cess to PSD lay­ers, any­one with the CS2 has Photoshop, which pro­vides lay­er blend­ing, and Bridge, which makes mov­ing be­tween the two all but seam­less. Moreover, even though QuarkVista is, in my opin­ion, a bril­liant XTension and gen­er­al­ly well-executed, Quark is the pro­gram that need­ed it. CS1, even with­out the Bridge, is in­te­grat­ed well enough that mov­ing be­tween InDesign and Photoshop to change PSDs wasn’t too tough

    (Note: in the in­ter­ests of cor­rec­tion, please not that in one of my replies above I said that QuarkVista’s ad­van­tage had been trumped by InDesign CS2 be­cause CS2 al­lowed ac­cess to PSD lay­ers. This is in­ex­cus­ably in­cor­rect. The XTension that pro­vides PSD ac­cess isn’t QuarkVista, but PSD Import.)

  14. Jeff Zimmerman says:

    Feature/ Quark/ IndesignCS3
    JDF /4/0
    Transparency/ 4(Color Level)/ 2(Object Level)
    Picture Background/ 4(Just one click)/ 2(very inefficient)

    Now we have some­thing to talk about (al­beit not much).

    JDF – you can check a box in CS2’s PDF ex­port (Advanced pane) to have it au­to­mat­i­cal­ly open Acrobat’s JDF di­a­log. I’ve nev­er used it and can’t eval­u­ate its user-friendliness, but it IS there. While this is tech­ni­cal­ly not a part of InDesign, it is con­sis­tent among ALL CS2 prod­ucts, and the process is seam­less enough that giv­ing InDesign a “0” isn’t en­tire­ly ac­cu­rate (in my opinion).

    Transparency – does Quark sup­port ad­vanced blend­ing modes (mul­ti­ply, screen, soft light, etc) like InDesign? While col­or lev­el opac­i­ty sounds like it would be use­ful, InDesign’s blend­ing modes cre­ate beau­ti­ful de­signs and I val­ue those more than I val­ue it be­ing at the col­or lev­el. Ignoring these is over­sim­pli­fy­ing this fea­ture and if you didn’t con­sid­er this be­fore, you need to reeval­u­ate this.

    Picture back­ground – I’m not quite sure what you are talk­ing about with this fea­ture. I be­lieve you are talk­ing about col­or­ing a greyscale graph­ic (llike duo­ton­ing) and am re­spond­ing un­der that as­sump­tion. I can see how sea­soned Quark users would think this is cum­ber­some, but once you learn the key com­mands, it’s a small price to pay for oth­er InDesign fea­tures. Not dis­put­ing your score, just say­ing it’s not some­thing that de­serves the same weight as transparency.

    Now, you’ve ob­vi­ous­ly cho­sen to eval­u­ate fea­tures that were ex­clu­sive to Quark (giv­ing InDesign a “0” for those cat­e­gories). What fea­tures did you eval­u­ate that were ex­clu­sive to InDesign? Object Styles (from CS2)? Seperations palette (from CS)? Simple pathfind­er func­tions (add, mi­nus back, etc – from ID1 or ID2)? These are just a cou­ple ex­am­ples of VERY use­ful fea­tures I sore­ly miss when I’m forced to use Quark. A fair eval­u­a­tion would have in­clud­ed all of these. Giving us the scores you gave InDesign for these fea­tures (even if you can’t di­vulge Quark’s equiv­a­lent score) will give your eval­u­a­tion more cred­it. Your list should be more com­plete than just the three ex­am­ples I mentioned.

  15. Jeff says:

    Actually, I called the VDP, JDF, and XML fea­tures un­sexy but strong, re­fer­ring to the fact that, while amaz­ing­ly strong and much need­ed tech­nolo­gies, they’re not as sexy as trans­paren­cy or OpenType sup­port, which were the pre­vi­ous­ly di­vulged features. 

    Sorry to have mis­quot­ed you. I just re­mem­bered the head­line (as the post had been a cou­ple weeks old, I be­lieve). At any rate, the main point of my orig­i­nal post was to say that you were will­ing to give Quark cred­it when cred­it is due (which hadn’t been very of­ten in the past).

  16. Mike says:

    Yes here are my rat­ings of quark 10 and in­de­sign 6.123

    The over­all bpd23 I give 0
    the red to or­ange ra­tio in quark is 5
    but in­de­sign is 200
    the pic­ture box I give a 100 to quark
    and a 70 to indesign.
    This is how relevent this whole top­ic is. And Im sor­ry to hear your bound samuel, there are some lax­i­tives that can help that.

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