I Shout "Quark Sucks!" Loudest

If you go to Google​.com and type in “quark sucks” (with or with­out the quotes), my site–specifically some op/ed dia­logues I started–is the top two list­ings. This makes me very proud.

It’s almost as if my voice shout­ing “Quark sucks!” is the loudest–at least on Google.

Google Search: quark sucks

144 thoughts on “I Shout "Quark Sucks!" Loudest

  1. David

    Cool! I’m sure this entry will con­crete your top spot for “quark sucks”! :)

  2. Carl

    Who *would­n’t* love soft­ware that cor­rupts it’s own format?

  3. artmomz

    That’s what brought me here a few months ago.…but I for­got to comment.

    Um, howdy! I just came back to see if there was any new quark suck­i­ness since the last time I wan­dered this way.

  4. IT Guy

    I agree. QUARK SUCKS ASS!!! I hate is more and more every­day. Screw Quark.

  5. betty

    Quark may be “user hos­tile”, but it does­n’t suck near­ly as much as InDesign. Takes twice as long to com­plete a project in ID, and I know both pro­grams real­ly well.

    It does­n’t suck as much as every­thing else. Such faint praise.

  6. Deb

    Just want­ed to join “the QUARK SUCKS list”. Just installed OS Panther and of course now I have to REACTIVATE through their amaz­ing­ly awful cus­tomer ser­vice dept. And for you folks that may not know this… you are only allowed to “REACTIVATE” up to 5 times a year and that’s it. So if you’re hav­ing hard­ware trou­ble, sys­tem rein­stalls, any­thing like that sort, watch out!! The only excuse they accept to not add to your “5 times” tal­ley is if you have a cor­rup­tion so I sug­gest stat­ing that being the rea­son every time you have to “REACTIVATE”. PLUS it took 3 days to get a reac­ti­va­tion code last time we need­ed it. What reg­u­lar Quark user can afford to be down with­out their pro­gram for that long??!! So next time I need to spend almost $1,000 for a lay­out pro­gram I will be hap­pi­ly giv­ing my mon­ey to Indesign as I will pray that they blow away Quark with their next release!!!

  7. Pariah Burke

    Betty:

    If it takes that long to do a project in InDesign, you’re doing it wrong. Seriously. InDesign makes things a hell of a lot faster–direct PSD and AI place­ment, with­out hav­ing to use inter­me­di­ary TIFF and EPS for­mats; gen­uine trans­paren­cy sup­port, not cludged clip­ping paths or Quark’s inter­nal clip­ping; real, not faked drop shad­ows; hang­ing punc­tu­a­tion; para­graph com­pos­er; OpenType sup­port so cross-platform projects don’t reflow; no need to cre­ate an annoy­ing pic­ture box before plac­ing a pic­ture each and every time; direct PDF export (that works); nest­ed, (option­al­ly) auto­mat­ic styles–which of these is not a time saver for you?

  8. Pariah Burke

    Deb:

    Yours is only the lat­est in a long line of acti­va­tion woes I’ve heard. Notice that the Quark Forums have been tak­en down?

    Rumor has it that the pro­lif­er­a­tion of acti­va­tion com­plaints, cou­pled with mny pos­i­tive InDesign reviews and InDesign how-tos, are what prompt­ed the removal of the forums.

  9. Will

    Does any­body have an idea of how long it would take to con­vert the whole indus­try to InDesign? If this hap­pened, it would make every­one’s lives a whole lot eas­i­er. Quark absolute­ly blows and I can’t wait until it fades away. Quark sim­ply does not lis­ten to it’s cus­tomers. I mean, it took them 12 years to sim­ply come up with mul­ti­ple undo’s. And they still do not have built-in impo­si­tion­ing. And that’s just a start of what’s wrong with Quark. Hopefully with­in the next few years, the indus­try will make the switch to InDesign. Productivity and cre­ativ­i­ty will sky­rock­et, not to men­tion cus­tomer service!

  10. Pariah Burke

    Will: Welcome to the Quark Sucks InDesign Appreciation Society. :-)

    From what I’ve been hear­ing online and at con­fer­ences, the major­i­ty of sev­er­al indus­tries have already switched: mag­a­zines, adver­tis­ing, gen­er­al design, oth­ers. Most design­ers who can switch have. And those who can’t are lob­by­ing their employ­ers hard to change.

  11. xynaxis

    The lat­est mar­ket­ing genius from QUARK – to shep­ard it’s (pay­ing) cus­tomers along it upgrade path by mak­ing their reg­is­tered copys NON-TRANSFERABLE. It’s amaz­ing – a ‘Google’ seach for “quark sucks” pro­duces 7,430 hits, yet QUARK man­age­ment still does­n’t get it!

  12. Anonymous

    fight the power

    Quark both sucks and blows

  13. xynaxis

    Look at the license agreement.

    Quark retains the own­er­ship of the CD and the man­u­als; not the licensee.

    The license restricts the use of the phys­i­cal prod­uct sole­ly to the licensee, unless you get per­mis­sion from Quark.

    Now that Quark has stopped doing license trans­fers, you can­not sell it, or even give it away.

    The license goes so far as to com­mand the licensee to destroy the phys­i­cal prod­uct if it is no longer being used.

  14. xynaxis

    Look at the license agreement.

    Quark retains the own­er­ship of the CD and the man­u­als; not the licensee.

    The license restricts the use of the phys­i­cal prod­uct sole­ly to the licensee, unless you get per­mis­sion from Quark.

    Now that Quark has stopped doing license trans­fers, you can­not sell it, or even give it away.

    The license goes so far as to com­mand the licensee to destroy the phys­i­cal prod­uct if it is no longer being used.

  15. xynaxis

    Pariah–look at those “used” copies of QuarkXpress on eBay. If you buy one of these, you are throw­ing your mon­ey away and (may be) using ille­gal soft­ware. If you’re sell­ing one of these, it is fraud. It takes a com­pa­ny like Quark to cre­ate a sit­u­a­tion like this for its PAYING CUSTOMERS. It is my under­stand­ing that Quark changed own­er­ship about 2 years ago, and clear­ly they don’t know what they are doing. Investing in either ver­sions 5 or 6 is a total waste of mon­ey, because the prod­uct is serio­su­ly flawed and has ‘zero’ resid­ual value.

  16. Pariah Burke

    Xynaxis:

    I’m just shak­ing my head and Quark’s mis­man­age­ment. Better not try to sell your old software.

    I don’t know about them chang­ing owners–my under­stand­ing was that Fred Ebrihimi, Quark’s CEO, has always been the major­i­ty shareholder–but they’ve always been very antag­o­nis­tic toward their customers.

  17. xynaxis

    FREE QUARKXPRESS SUBSTITUTE !!!!

    WORKS IN OSX !!!!!

    LEGAL !!!!

    If you are an OSX user, there is a German-made SUBSTITUTE for QuarkXPress. It is called Ragtime. If pre­cise col­or match­ing is not a require­ment, and the soft­ware will be used for non-commercial pur­pos­es, there is a FREE ver­sion of this pro­gram called RAGTIME SOLO that can be down­loaded from http://​www​.rag​time​-online​.com.

    SPREAD TO WORD TO YOUR MAC FRIENDS!

  18. Pariah Burke

    Thanks, Xynaxis. Actually, RagTime isn’t lim­it­ed to OSX users. They also make ver­sions for Windows (XP/2000/NT4/ME/98) and Mac OSes 8 and 9.

    I’m down­load­ing a copy now to try it out.

    From a quick glance at the mar­ket­ing mate­r­i­al, though, it looks like RagTime is being posi­tioned as more of a busi­ness pub­lish­ing or hob­by­ist lay­out pro­gram to com­pete with PageMaker, Microsoft Publisher, or Serif PagePlus.

    Still, it’s worth a try. I love lay­out pro­grams. Serif PagePlus, when they sent me ver­sion 1.0 for review about ten years ago, was a whole lot of fun. It was­n’t as pow­er­ful and pre­cise as Quark (2? 3? I forget)–for exam­ple, PagePlus only allowed posi­tion­ing to with­in a one hun­dredth of an inch, which isn’t pre­cise enough for pro­fes­sion­al work–but it was a real­ly fun pro­gram to play with.

    I’ll let you know what I think of RagTime.

  19. Tony

    Hi

    Just thought I’d let you know that Im look­ing for con­trib­u­tors to my Quark bash­ing site, that I’m cur­rent­ly devel­op­ing (www​.quarkiscrap​.com) if you’re interested. 

    At the moment it’s main­ly a rant but I’d quite like to get some con­struc­tive stuff in there. I’ve includ­ed a link to this site, too, if that’s OK…

  20. Pariah Burke

    I’m not sure about con­tribut­ing since I have some oth­er pans in the fire along those lines myself. I think I can at least pro­vide a rec­i­p­ro­cal link, Tony. Thanks for let­ing me know about it!

  21. Bill

    You know what the fun­ni­est thing of all is? 

    It’s that to this day Quark still has this incred­i­bly arro­gant atti­tude that every­one real­ly wants to pirate their piece of crap!! They should have spent less time on pre­vent­ing the two peo­ple out there who want to steal a copy and put more time in actu­al­ly mak­ing their prod­uct better.

    I had to use up my ONE free sup­port call only to find out my prob­lem is due to a bug. If their forums were still around I could have found the solu­tion myself in 5 min­utes instead of being on hold for 45 minutes!

    Oh yea, this is price­less… evi­dent­ly the rea­son that they took the forums down was because only peo­ple who pirate their soft­ware go there for help. Pa-lease, they took it down because every­one was bitch­ing about all of the bugs in ver­sion 5 and they KNEW ver­sion 6 sucked ass too. Can you say dam­age control?

  22. Alan Smith

    Quark Sucks. Long Suck the Quark.

    Just got a let­ter in the mail from Quark, laud­ing their recent changes. I won’t go into all of the unbe­liev­able back-patting, but rather get to the point: They offered an online sur­vey for feedback.

    http://​www​.quark​.com/​s​u​r​v​e​y​/user/

    Please let us know how we can serve you better.”

    Don’t wor­ry, I will!

  23. Pariah Burke

    Thanks, Alan.

    I post­ed about it here.

    I tried to answer the sur­vey, but Quark’s Cold Fusion pro­gram­ming skills leave some­thing to be desired.

  24. j

    thanks to Alan for giv­ing me the sur­vey site. Although Quark won’t lis­ten, it sure was nice to vent!

  25. T-Bone

    Quark Sucks! (Just want­ed to stick in my two cents!) I feel much bet­ter and am sure glad I sold my copies on ebay before it was too late! InDesign–there is no sub­sti­tute! Just remem­ber, it is not Quark and has a larg­er learn­ing curve for users who are not used to the Adobe inter­face. Once you get it–there is no turn­ing back. Previously an avid Quark sup­port­er (I have been using it since it first came out!),I have com­plete­ly trans­fered my work­flow to InDesign. Oh, did I hap­pen to men­tion that Quark Sucks!!!

  26. Pariah Burke

    Hallelujah! Praise be unto PostScript, broth­er T‑Bone has seen the light. Say it with me now, chil­dren: Quark Sucks!

  27. Anonymous

    I don’t feel QuarkXPress 6 is that bad!… All soft­wares are bug­gy to some extent then why cre­ate so much fuss about QuarkXPress? .…

  28. drew

    Beleive me- I hate quark more than all of you com­bined… Unfortunately I’m hav­ing to use it right now and encoun­ter­ing a prob­lem. Quark obvi­ous­ly won’t han­dle any issues, and for every­one here hat­ing it so much, must mean you’ve used it so much and might have a solu­tion. I’m try­ing to print an 11x17- only no mat­ter what I do to change the print size from 8.5 x 11 to 11x17 it does­n’t. Oh, this is Quark 4.1… Now for the fun stuff. Quark is quite sim­ply the most pathet­ic excuse for a soft­ware devel­op­ment com­pa­ny in the his­to­ry of com­put­ers. It is the sick, dying uncle that just won’t die. Saying the words indus­try stan­dard over and over again in an elit­ist fash­ion won’t make it so- I’m sure quark was eff­ing bril­liant in 1988- So was Duck Hunt. If any­one is uncer­tain, mark my words like a Calculus mid-term cheat sheet- switchto/choose InDesign at all costs. Cheers.

  29. drew

    Beleive me- I hate quark more than all of you com­bined… Quark sucks. Unfortunately I’m hav­ing to use it right now and encoun­ter­ing a prob­lem. Quark obvi­ous­ly won’t han­dle any issues, and for every­one here hat­ing it so much, must mean you’ve used it so much and might have a solu­tion. I’m try­ing to print an 11x17- only, no mat­ter what I do to change the print size from 8.5 x 11 to 11x17, it does­n’t. Oh, this is Quark 4.1… Now for the fun stuff. Quark is quite sim­ply the most pathet­ic excuse for a soft­ware devel­op­ment com­pa­ny in the his­to­ry of com­put­ers. It is the sick, debil­i­tat­ing uncle that just won’t die. Saying the words ‘indus­try stan­dard’ over and over again in an elit­ist fash­ion won’t make it so- I’m sure quark was eff­ing bril­liant in 1988- So was Duck Hunt. If any­one is uncer­tain, mark my words like a Calculus mid-term cheat sheet- switchto/choose InDesign at all costs. Cheers.

  30. drew

    sor­ry about the acci­den­tal double-post… Quark sucks

  31. Pariah Burke

    Drew:

    Thanks for shar­ing your thoughts. Your Duck Hunt com­ment made me laugh; it’s an apt anal­o­gy. Quark is Duck Hunt; InDesign is Halo.

    With regard to your print prob­lem… Where do you try (and fail) to change the print size of your doc­u­ment? Do you mean that you have an 8.5 x 11″ that you’re try­ing to scale up to print on 11 x 17″ at print time?

    Give us the details (oper­at­ing sys­tem and ver­sion, your print­er and PPD ver­sion, whether this hap­pens on more than one doc­u­ment, if it hap­pens with a brand new doc­u­ment as well, etc.) and maybe we can help. I train peo­ple in Quark and, while with Adobe, pro­vid­ed tech­ni­cal sup­port on Quark to Adobe’s Tech Support team. (In the inter­ests of full-disclosure, here’s my pro­fes­sion­al bio).

    If I can help, I’ll be hap­py to.

  32. drew

    Thanks so much Pariah-

    The doc­u­ment size is 11x17- When I change the paper size from 8.5x11 to 11x17 in the print­er prop­er­ties, my print set­tings in Quark have not changed. It’s Windows XP Professional… This hap­pens on a pre­vi­ous­ly cre­at­ed doc­u­ment. The only workaround I’ve found is to open a new 11x17 doc­u­ment and copy then paste- which should be an unnec­es­sary has­sle. The print­er is a Ricoh E‑300 with an Adobe Fiery dri­ven post­script 3… it is not with­out its own flaws, but after a cou­ple of years using Quark, you learn to rec­og­nize that spe­cif­ic, ago­niz­ing quark headache. Again, thanks so much… I real­ly appre­ci­ate it. Quark owes you a mul­ti­tude of the mil­lions it owes me for time lost and dam­ages. Cheers.

  33. HOAX

    I am so sick of Quark I’m switch­ing back to WordPerfect 5.1.

    What a joke! The 6.1 “updater” does­n’t even work! It crash­es everytime!

    Our com­pa­ny is about as back­wards as Quark is though, so if they switch to any­thing, it would prob­a­bly be a box of crayons (maybe even with the built-in sharp­en­er Xtension)

  34. charu chandra tiwari

    I think that the guys, writ­ing about Quark, does’nt know much of the fea­tures quark gives it to you.

    They are now giv­ing free “vari­able printing”

    exten­sion to it’s cus­tomer. Why does’nt you point out this. I tried inde­sign and it’s does’nt give you half the fea­tures what the quarkx­press gives to you.. think over it.

  35. Alan Smith

    Just an FYI to my fel­low Quark-hating brothas and sis­tas out there: Quark Forums are back up!

    Bitch away.

  36. Guest

    Thank GOD for the PDF. I used Quark for about six years and the place I work at used it for longer than that. So, I had a big fight on my hand to make the switch. But with the help of the Sevice Provider pro­gram, I now have a solu­tion. The price for being a mem­ber is less than buy­ing Photoshop and Illustrator sep­a­rte­ly. And, I get InDesign, GoLive and Acrobat Professional. I used Acrobats Distiller to PDF any job for Quark. If I need to make minor changes, I do it direct­ly in Acrobat. Or, I can delete the items I need to change and import the PDF into InDesign and recom­bine it into my PDF. I could nev­er accom­plish this, with out tak­ing a cof­fee break inbe­tween, in Quark because of the “pre­view” of import­ed items. For the price of two upgrades, from 4 to 5 and 5 to 6, I can have a seam­less work­flow and may be enough left over for lunch. Oh, and uh, Quark Suuuucks.

  37. jp

    yes you are all right, quark real­ly suck’s!

    and it is a expen­sive suck

  38. BCS

    Quark is giv­ing away free variable-data pub­lish­ing? Only if you are run­ning an Indigo. You should read deep­er. And as a VDP XTension, what­ev­er the hell that is, eXclusive or some non­sense, it real­ly is not very good and gives you no con­trol over what you are doing com­pared to some­thing like DesignMerge. DesignMerge in Quark is awesome.

  39. Greg

    Quark con­tin­ues to off­set their huge devel­op­ment costs of all of their failed soft­ware ven­tures (Remember QuarkImmedia?) by charg­ing more and more for their ONE good prod­uct: Quark XPress.
    Too bad their major com­peti­tor makes a prod­uct that’s twice as good for half the price.
    “The Bigger they are, the Harder they Fall…”

  40. Alan Smith

    Our switchover to InDesign is com­plete. What a relief. Quark Sucks.

    Quark. S U C K S.

  41. pattii

    Couple replies:

    To Hoax: You said you’re “so sick of Quark you’re switch­ing back to WordPerfect, 5.1,” That tells me your page lay­out must be of a sim­ple, non-pro type of lay­out. If you’re on a Mac, try buy­ing iWork. Apples new “Pages” appli­ca­tion is $79, cheap! It’s easy to learn for those non-pro needs. Perfect for those who don’t need the mega pow­er, nor want depth of the ocean com­plex­i­ty, and don’t want to pay the big $$$ Quark or Indesign. Plus you get Keynote bun­dled in it too (Apple’s sophis­ti­cat­ed rival to PowerPoint.)

    To Greg: Your point of Quark “charg­ing more and more for their ONE good prod­uct” brings up my thought about that point. Quark has ONE prod­uct to pro­duce. If all the com­pa­nies time, ener­gy and resources are ded­i­cat­ed to per­fect­ing ONE sin­gle prod­uct and, after all these years, it STILL SUCKS, what does this say about their Research and Development staff?

    Info for switch­ers: We found InDesign CS actu­al­ly con­vert­ed Quark Documents with greater accu­ra­cy and dis­rup­tion of lay­out than it con­vert­ed Adobe’s own PageMaker doc­u­ments. Odd but true. (lev­el of suc­cess var­ied of course). More than art or pho­tos, a com­mon prob­lem was how the font track­ing was interpreted.

  42. Unknown

    Hello, I would like to com­ment that its true that there are some prob­lem while using Quark, how­ev­er it is not only with Quark, but also with oth­er soft­wares also. So instead of search­ing or find­ing the flaws we can also look into the bet­ter side of Quark. 

  43. MacDano

    I agree that Quark has defi­nat­ley dropped the ball on this one. I have been using Quark for fif­teen years now and have used Pagemaker wich sucked even when Aldus owned it. I am using Quark and InDesign now in my work­flow and have noticed flaws in both programs. 

    Quark hav­ing screwed “lit­er­al­ly” their buy­ers by com­pli­cat­ing the copy­right issues in itself is rea­son enough for me to quit buy­ing their products.

    However InDesign may even­tu­al­ly dom­i­nate the page lay­out pro­gram they need to fix some post­script bugs as well.

    Have a great day!
    MacDano

  44. Terrance

    Indesign saved my life, Quark is such crap. I mean u have to buy a seper­ate plu­g­in just to have tables.. seper­ate plu­g­ins just to do a PDF , and to top it off when work­ing with a lan­u­age like ara­bic u need some stu­pid don­gle, and most of the the time the ara­bic comes out all worng.

    QUARK TEAM WAKE UP or DIE,
    Indesigne is such a sweet soft­ware to work on. Easy to han­dle, pre­views are bril­lant and to make it all bet­ter is the wounder ful ser­vice the Adobe team provides

    I love my job even more thanks to INDESIGN

  45. Art

    Nothing SUCKS as much as Quark! I have been sick of them for years and their ser­vice is pos­si­bly even worse than their pro­gram! I switched to InDesign a cou­ple of years ago but some of my clients are still in Quark hell and want me to stay there with them. I praise InDesign as often as I can and HIGHLY rec­om­mend to all design firms and ad agen­cies that I work with to get rid of Quark!!

  46. Rob Guthrie

    I used to hate InDesign … but since mov­ing to Mac OSX … and releas­ing CS2,Adobe real­ly seems to have got­ten their acts togeth­er. I nev­er thought I’d say it … but I’m a total InDesign con­vert. (Adobe … I take back every time I’d called it “InDespair”!)

    By the way folks … there are much worse pro­grams out there than Quark. Just about any­thing Microsoft has put out is total crap (any­one try to get four colour sep­a­ra­tions out of Micro$oft Punisher, I mean Publisher??) And there are still many idiots out there attempt­ing to get pro­fe­sion­al print­ing jobs out of a Word document! 

    And don’t get me start­ed on Corel!!!

    I would take Quirk … I mean Quark over those noob pro­grams any day of the week!

  47. Honi Bennetts

    Hi,
    I work for a small week­ly news­pa­per and I am VERY inter­est­ed in switch­ing to InDesign. Our Quark is unsta­ble and near­ly unusable…my only con­cern is how we will process our clas­si­fied ads? We cur­rent­ly use CAMS and import into Quark with “Get text with X‑tags” is there a plu­g­in for this func­tion or a way around it in InDesign?
    I like your site, Thanks!

    hb

  48. Scott C.

    One rea­son why Quark even exists nowa­days is because of all the “old” graph­ic design­ers that are still in the field. I remem­ber being in col­lege a cou­ple years ago fin­ish­ing up my Bachelor’s and my design teach­ers still REFUSED to use any­thing BUT Quark. By then, Indesign CS was out and almoste very stu­dent had access to it. But noooo.…, the old design­ers would­n’t have it. Same goes for the print­ing com­pa­ny I interned with that same year – of the 7 design­ers that worked their full-time for 10+ years, only [1] occa­sion­al­ly used Indesign. The rest were so obsessed with Quark Quickkeys and los­ing all their exten­sions that it drove me crazy. Even in late 2004, I still had to use Quark 4.0 & OS9 at WORK at one of the largest print­ing com­pa­nies in Northern Michigan. And at the col­lege news­pa­per where I worked as a pro­duc­tion staffer (& even­tu­al­ly man­ag­er) from 2001–2004, my boss refused to let us make any­thing in Indesign. The print­er also want­ed ONLY Quark and noth­ing else.

    I feel like Quark’s longevi­ty has less to do with it’s amaz­ing abil­i­ties and more to do with it’s aging core user base who refuse to try any­thing new. I mean, my old teach­ers and boss at the news­pa­per REFUSED to even let me use JPEGs in place of 100+MB TIFF files! These peo­ple *who I think aren’t very knowl­edge­able tech­ni­cal­ly* are so scared of change, they will con­tin­ue using Quark for the next 10, 15 years easy.

    One of my favorite com­pa­nies is Corel because they try so hard to put out good prod­ucts are all about cus­tomer ser­vice. Their prices are cheap, their soft­ware is good (Draw is no Illustrator/Freehand…and Photo Paint is no Photoshop…but they come close and can do some things the oth­ers can’t) and for a design­er who wants legal, authen­tic design soft­ware at a rea­son­able price with few tech-hassles, they’re awesome.

    But I can’t be a Quark hater 100%. Back from 1998–2004 I could make a book / news­pa­per / etc. faster in Quark [4.0] than I could in Indesign, hands down. Their real­ly isn’t much to Quark and at times their seems to be TOO much to Indesign…OPTIONS overkill. For design­ers and peo­ple who don’t need to cre­ate super com­pli­cat­ed lay­outs, Quark is prob­a­bly a bet­ter choice for efficiency…BUT, after you fac­tor in soft­ware reli­a­bil­i­ty, acti­va­tion and price, Indesign is top dog nowadays.

    I may not be in love with Indesign, but I cer­tain­ly have no love for Quark.

    Finally, let me say this: Unless you are mak­ing a news­pa­per or mag­a­zine, Freehand beats ALL lay­out pro­grams eas­i­ly. Sad to see it go extinct thanks to Adobe, but even so, I’d still rather use Freehand than any oth­er drawing/layout pro­gram on the market.
    *End Rant* :)

  49. LBS

    I have been work­ing in the pub­lish­ing and pre­press indus­try since ’91. I mean real jobs, I won’t even do free­lance for my Mother. Nothing gets me to do free­lance any­more. 98% of the time, the prob­lems peo­ple have with an appli­ca­tion are because a) they do not know how to use it b) they do not know how to use a com­put­er or c) they have some grandiose lev­el of expec­ta­tion about what appli­ca­tions and com­put­ers are going to do for them. I can hon­est­ly say that peo­ple blame the com­put­er most of the time for their own fail­ings. It is very easy to blame a piece of soft­ware or some wierd con­di­tion instead of just admit­ting that you do not have the remotest clue what you are sup­posed to do with this-or-that. If you are work­ing on a com­put­er and have no idea how that com­put­er works or what should be done to it to keep it run­ning prop­er­ly, then you have no busi­ness in this busi­ness. Quark or InDesign are not going to help you if you can­not lis­ten to oth­ers, under­stand a dig­i­tal work­flow, or know what a pro­fes­sion­al pro­duc­tion piece should look like. InDesign can­not help you if you make bad pages slow­ly. If you want to be a pro then a) Use what it is in the best inter­ests of the client and the goal of the piece, b) Be ready to use any and every appli­ca­tion on any OS IRREGARDLESS of what your “per­son­al opin­ion” is and c) nev­er, nev­er, nev­er bad mouth or bitch about anoth­er com­pa­ny, client or prod­uct; it makes you look shal­low and juve­nile no mat­ter how you do it.

  50. Muleboy

    Pariah, Hey I had a Quark sucks post on your old site! And guess what?Just in the last year our whole office switched. We’ve got graph­ic design­ers, project coor­di­na­tors, copy­writ­ers, and even mar­ket­ing clerks using Indesign. Now don’t get me wrong there was a bit of an invest­ment, and I believe a few of the girls took a day or so to look over some of the Indesign train­ing CD’s we bought. But the results were insane, we now have peo­ple who have only worked in Word before using tem­plates that the Graphic Designers put togeth­er and crank­ing out some real­ly pro­fes­sion­al look­ing work. As a Graphic Designer I have more time, no crash­es, and though I still have Quark 6 installed on my com­put­er I have not opened that piece of crap for months and don’t intend to open it this year. Quark you greedy son of a b, your going down!

  51. Muleboy

    One more thing Pariah, have you noticed that the new Quark logo looks a whole lot like some­thing cir­cling the green tol­liet bowl. I’ve sub­con­cious­ly put things in my work before but this design­er real­ly hit the nail on the head.

  52. Court

    What the heck hap­pened. Its as if new pro­gramers devel­oped the revi­sion. For exam­ple, what is the deal with the bar­ley shad­ed tool box. You can’t even tell what the heck your on. Or type, it does not read. Clicking a box is delayed. So you must antic­i­pate the next click. Generally the pro­gram is much slow­er. It feels strange– off. Is there any hope. Because, I fuck­ing hate Indesign, just because!

  53. Marcy Wallabout

    InDesign has great fea­tures, but com­pared to QXP, I find it fussy to handle.
    Takes get­ting used to , I guess.

  54. Joe Post author

    How could you com­pare a pro­gram that works seam­less­ly with illus­tra­tor, Photoshop, and a host of oth­er for­mats. Hell I rather use Pagemaker than Quark.
    InDesign def­i­nite­ly has cor­nered mar­ket for cre­ative lay­out design!

  55. Bill

    Upgrading to Quark 7 deac­ti­vates the Quark 6 ser­i­al num­ber. I would­n’t care except that 7 opens 6 files all screwed up and they basicly have to be rebuilt. 6 will run if already installed but it can’t be rein­stalled. I told the tech sup­port super­vi­sor that all our new projects are being done in InDesign.

  56. tripdog

    Our graph­ic design firm switched from Quark to InDesign a cou­ple of years ago when Adobe CS came out and Quark was busy insult­ing print design­ers and Mac users alike. 

    I look back on those dark days of Quark headaches and it makes me feel sad for the design­ers out there today who are forced to use such awful soft­ware to do their jobs. 

    All the prob­lems with Quark tend to kill the cre­ative spir­it or at the very least dis­tract and slow you way down.

  57. JoeMama

    #1 Quark Dis’:

    Your mom’s so stu­pid, she cre­at­ed Quark.”

    or

    Your mom’s so stu­pid, she will­ing­ly uses Quark.”

    or

    Your mom’s so fat, she eats Quark, but then throws up because it sucks so much.”

    -jps

  58. JoeMama

    This is all you real­ly need to con­sid­er when com­par­ing the dif­fer­ence between the two progs:

    I’ve worked in multi-color, full-color, vec­tor based and raster based out­put. I’ve recieved output-ready art­work in just about every file for­mat imag­in­able for every form of out­put imag­in­able, for every type of client. Highend graph­ics, to low end crap. It’s been my expe­ri­ence to find that of all the page lay­out I get in both Quark 7 and Indesign (CS2), the best art­work and most well-designed stuff comes to me in Indesign for­mat. Period. People, i believe, only still use Quark because they “have” to. Whether it’s because they aren’t will­ing to learn some­thing new (which is often times the case in print), or it’s because patho­log­i­cal­ly, they think what they don’t know WILL hurt them. If you hon­est­ly think that Indesign is “hard­er” to use, and it takes you longer, it’s sim­ply because you aren’t as well versed in the Adobe app inter­face as you should be. Period. There’s basi­cal­ly noth­ing in Quark 7.0 that’s as intu­itive as what you get in Indesign. I just got the newest Quark 7.02 upgrade, and today I’ve encoun­tered THREE ALL NEW PROBLEMS!! WTF?! With 7.01, Quark was crash­ing like it was nobody’s busi­ness. Now, the pre­views are all jacked, and can bare­ly use the Content tool to type with­out hav­ing to restart the appli­ca­tion, because i can’t see what I’m typ­ing as soon as I type it. I’m run­ning on a Dual 2.3 PowerPC G5, with 2 gig of DDR2, and this crap sim­ply should not be hap­pen­ing. The only thing bad I can say about Indesign is that it peri­od­i­cal­ly crash­es, but no more than Quark does. However, Indesign’s crash recov­ery (which Quark has yet to deve­l­ope a ver­sion of, like it nev­er crash­es) more than makes up for that flaw. Indesign even CRASHES bet­ter than Quark. Why? Because Quark IS CRAP!

  59. JoeMama

    Oh yeah, in case you haven’t upgrad­ed to Quark 7 and are con­sid­er­ing it first by try­ing the “eval­u­a­tion ver­sion,” be fore­warned: any file you make using the eval. ver­sion of Quark 7 can­not be opened in ANY Quark ver­sion besides 7. So if you try it out and cre­ate a work­ing project for pro­fes­sion­al use, YOU HAVE to pur­chase the ful­ly reg­is­tered ver­sion of Quark 7 after your eval. ver­sion expires if you want to open the project again. Any ver­sion of Quark pri­or to 7 will not allow you to open a Quark 7 project. Can we say “high­way rob­bery” class? No? Maybe “shot­gun wed­ding.” Maybe not…howabout “Quark is crap.”

  60. Peter

    @JoeMama:
    “Oh yeah, in case you haven’t upgrad­ed to Quark 7 and are con­sid­er­ing it first by try­ing the “evaluation version,” be fore­warned: any file you make using the eval. ver­sion of Quark 7 can­not be opened in ANY Quark ver­sion besides 7.”

    Where did you read such rub­bish? Of course I can open files cre­at­ed by the eval­u­a­tion ver­sion of QuarkXPress 7 with any pro­duc­tion version.

    Quark has changed that with ver­sion 7, you live in the past, this used to be the way their demo ver­sions worked (up to 6.5).

    Hey, Joe, it is 2006! ;-)

  61. JoeMama

    Uh, that’s not some­thing I read Peter. That’s FIRST HAND EXPERIENCE! However, I should be more clear to men­tion that this experi­cence is only par­tial to what hap­pened to me, but honest-to-jehosaphat, I had ver­sion 6.5 on my G4 and G5, and after get­ting the 7.0 eval ver­sion and hav­ing it expire after a month, I could not for the life of me open the files I had cre­at­ed in 7.0 in 6.5. The pro­gram (6.5) gave me an error mes­sage say­ing that it was made in a dif­fer­ent ver­sion of Quark. Actually, let me take a moment to rea­peat the process, hold on a sec:::goes to 6.5::::opens a 7.0 project::::: UH OH! LOOK! I get a mes­sage say­ing VERBATIM:::“This doc­u­ment can­not be opened by this ver­sion of Quark Xpress.” Seems like this isn’t just an eval­u­a­tion issue, since the com­pa­ny i work for has since pur­chased the ful­ly reg­is­tered ver­sion. The point is, I CANNOT open a Quark 7 file in ver­sion 6.5, not vice-versa. Period. Let me repeat myself since it seems you don’t seem to grasp what it is i’m say­ing: QUARK IS CRAP!!

  62. Dillon

    hel­lo Pariah Burke! I was doing a project on Quark vs Indesign, and we were sup­poused to make a per­son­al pre­fer­rence. Well, now its Indesign. The more and more i read about the “war” between the two, and what hor­ri­ble decisons Quark has done, i’ve come to the con­clu­sion that quark deserves to die.

  63. QXP.ind

    i have noth­ing to Xpress but to put a Quark in it,

  64. Peter

    @JoeMama:
    You can­not open a 6.5 file in 7? Does that sur­prise you? My ID CS can­not open a ID CS2 file. Naturally, how could they have known in old ver­sions how the new­er ver­sion will look like?

    So you need to dowsave. In InDesign via INX, in Quark via Export->Layout as Projects.

    Bottom line: Often the prob­lem sits between the key­board and the chair ;-)

    P.S.: There is a 6.52 update avail­able, which fix­es many of the downsave-issues in 6.5

  65. Steve

    2½ years ago I took over pro­duc­tion at a coun­try news­pa­per which was using quark 4 to put togeth­er their paper. after five months I man­aged to get them to update to InDesign CS, thank god. what a sav­iour! NOW, the paper has been bought out by a larg­er news­pa­per group and they want every­thing back in quark and they’ve installed v6.5. I can’t tell that much dif­fer­ence except for star­bursts on the tool box. What a joke!
    Life has become so much more painful at work now, the paper looks awful. Advertisers aren’t hap­py either and the own­ers don’t see the prob­lem believ­ing Quark is king, haaaa.
    QUARK SUCKS

  66. M Jenius

    Steve, That is a com­mon sce­nario in the news­pa­per busi­ness. Quark is dom­i­nant in that sec­tor. Just think about the type of peo­ple run­ning the show. You also have to con­sid­er that they want all their news­pa­pers on the same plat­form. Since the have all their equip­ment and soft­ware set­up to run on Quark, they are not gonna budge. Not to men­tion that news­pa­per is a shrink­ing indus­try. The bot­tom line rules, but for what it’s worth, I agree with you.

  67. damo

    Surprise sur­prise the Adobe “fan­boys” wan­na bag Quark. I was an “ex Quark blah blah”.… “I hate Quark because it has stu­pid name blah blah” 

    You guys seri­ous­ly need to:

    a. Grow up

    b. Get a life 

    c. Leave you com­put­ers and spend some time in the com­pa­ny of real people.

    You’re like children.

    Get your wives or girl­friends to read your pathet­ic dri­v­el, whin­ing and bitch­ing and then try to pass your­selves of as “real men”.

  68. Sandy

    I can appre­ci­ate the frus­tra­tions about Quark: I use it every day. I’m a news­pa­per edi­tor, and that’s what our Macintoshes and press­es are set up to use.
    I can also appre­ci­ate all of the design­ers that don’t like Quark. It’s your choice.
    However, I get real­ly mad when peo­ple send me job appli­ca­tions that say “I can use Quark, I guess, but I pre­fer InDesign.”
    I don’t care what you pre­fer. Personally, I pre­fer PhotoShop. However, our com­pa­ny and the way its press­es work are set up for Quark. Just because you pre­fer InDesign does not mean that the com­pa­ny is going spend a few mil­lion dol­lars to rein­vent the wheel for you.
    If you want to work at a news­pa­per, you need to know and work with the design pro­grams that news­pa­per uses. Don’t waste my time telling me what you pre­fer. Can you use what we use? If you can’t, and you can’t do it with­out com­plain­ing, then move along. I’ll find some­one else.
    That’s what your pro­fes­sors called work­ing in the real world. This is the real world. If you’re free­lanc­ing and pay­ing for the soft­ware, you can use what­ev­er you want. When you come to work in a com­pa­ny, don’t waste its time with what you “pre­fer.”
    We pre­fer that you use the soft­ware that’s provided.
    And if you’re telling poten­tial boss­es that you pre­fer one pro­gram over anoth­er, then expect them to pre­fer anoth­er appli­cant over you.
    Welcome to the real world!

  69. Jimbo

    Quark is a JOKE!

    Just had to install Quark 7.
    It changes every Quark Icon to this ridiculous
    new Icon mak­ing it imposi­ible to distinguish
    between your old­er files (6.5) and new files (7).

    Down con­vert­ing from 7 to 6.5 is crash­ing 6.5!!

    It’s upsurd!

    And what’s up with the appli­ca­tion Icon?
    What the F is that thing?

    Why are they so useless?

  70. Info

    Jimbo,

    First, learn about oper­at­ing sys­tems. And then think about doc­u­ment icons again.

    Secondly, make the update to 6.52, then Quark won’t crash any­more when downsaving.

    Thirdly, if the only bug Quark had was the appli­ca­tion logo, you should be happy.

    Your
    Info

  71. Chris

    Despite all the has­sles I like quark 7, the way inde­sign han­dles imagery is long­wind­ed and cludgy, it does­n’t even sup­port bilevel tiff colouri­sa­tion. If I drag and drop a colour, inde­sign assumes its the top object rather than where I place the colour tile. It also clut­ters up my desk­top with shed loads of palettes. Why they don’t have trans­paren­cy with the colour palette either is not a good idea. Its also too busy assum­ing I want to place image INTO objects on a page when I don’t. It does­n’t work well with lay­ered items either. Its tak­en twice as long for me to do a job as it would have in Quark!

    I hope to god Adobe don’t buy Quark as well, as they have form, with Illustrator effec­tive­ly wip­ing out the bril­liant Freehand by acquir­ing Macromedia was one the the worst blows to cre­ative com­mu­ni­ties. They say they’re keep­ing Freehand – yeah right?… Being rail­road­ed into soft­ware by monop­oly seek­ing com­pa­nies is just not healthy. Vive le Quark!

    My two cents.

  72. M Jenius

    I won­der if the fear of an Adobe monop­oly has some­thing to do with our awful expe­ri­ence with quark’s past dom­i­nance? Don’t get me wrong I’m against monop­o­lies. And I applaud every­one who jumped to quark 7. OK so you don’t like ID, but what’s every­one’s excuse now? (Unless it’s finan­cial or com­pat­i­bil­i­ty issues). Keep in mind that quark 7 has a side effect… I’ve per­son­al­ly wit­nessed long time Quark afi­ciona­dos open­ly cir­i­tize pre­vi­ous ver­sions after mov­ing up to quark 7. Well I’m hap­py for all of you, con­grat­u­la­tions, final­ly a good ver­sion. All I ask is that you’ll be hap­py for me when CS3 comes out… but that’s prob­a­bly wish­ful think­ing ‑_-

  73. safe as andrew

    I agree with the old design­ers stick­ing with quark com­ment. Some are just so stuck in their ways. I hope Adobe win this bat­tle, they deserve it because Quark has had long enough to improve it’s shod­dy prod­uct (and it’s price)…

  74. William 6691

    I have to add to a pre­vi­ous post:
    Quark 7 is defy­ing the laws of the phys­i­cal uni­verse by suck­ing and blow­ing at the same time!

  75. M Jenius

    I try so hard not to bag on quark on every com­ment that I make, but that’s just too funny.

  76. Don't be crazy

    InDesign SUCKS, get real QXP is faster, out­put is quick­er and more pre­dictable, Flattning in InDesign is pre­his­toric. large doc­u­ments grind to a halt in inde­sign and that’s on a G5 4GB RAM. People say XPress in not cre­ative, what about lay­out spaces, shared obsjects, com­po­si­tion zones, JDF sup­port, UB Support, Better psd sup­port than InDesign. This looks like a com­pant that has seen what Adobe can do and said “You have no clue” the prac­ti­cal use of these fea­tures is unlimited.
    From expe­ri­ance your all just upset becouse you don’t know how to use XPress any­more. let’s see what Adobe does in responce to Xpress 7.5 and 8.

  77. M Jenius

    Don’t be crazy,
    I val­ue your opin­ion, but I’m very con­fused about two things you mentioned.
    1. “large doc­u­ments grind to a halt in inde­sign and that’s on a G5 4GB RAM.”
    2. “…Better psd sup­port than InDesign”

  78. Pariah S. Burke Post author

    M Jenius:

    2. “…Better psd sup­port than InDesign”

    He’s right. (Actually, he’s been run­ning all over Quark VS InDesign​.com com­ment­ing any­where he could, and prob­a­bly read where I stat­ed XPress 6.5 and 7 have bet­ter PSD sup­port than InDesign CS2).

    They both place PSDs and do some­thing with the lay­ers, but InDesign CS2 is lim­it­ed to con­trol­ling Layer Comps (not lay­ers), which requires fore­thought and prep in Photoshop. XPress, on the oth­er hand, will con­trol lay­ers in a placed PSD directly.

    XPress also has attribute-level trans­paren­cy con­trol where­as InD CS2 is lim­it­ed to object-level. In InD CS2, the entire object can be ren­dered par­tial­ly trans­par­ent or its blend­ing mode changed, but in XPress, the box and con­tent can be con­trolled sep­a­rate­ly, as can attrib­ut­es like stroke and fill.

    The cur­rent sta­tus, as of the release of XPress 6.5 and the PSD Import Xtension, is that the cur­rent release of XPress has greater PSD con­trol and sup­port than the cur­rent release of InD.

  79. Don't be crazy

    Actually I nev­er read your arti­cal regard­ing psd sup­port, as a user of XPress and InDesign I actu­al­ly know what the appli­ca­tions are capa­ble of doing, I’m read­ing posts on this site as this is the first time I have visited.
    Under the impres­sion from the title I was hop­ing to get cor­rect unbias infor­ma­tion. which is not the case, more like a mar­ket­ing tool for Adobe and per­son­al gain. alot of info on oth­er Adobe prod­ucts with no com­par­i­son with Quark tech­nol­o­gy, a total lack of acknowl­edg­ment for QPS or CopyDesk. Server 7 and InDesign serv­er comparison!

  80. Don't be crazy

    And that was 6.5, bet­ter per­for­mance with 7, UB sup­port etc.

  81. M Jenius

    Wow, I got­ta get that Xtension. The guys here at work are going to love it, since they are main­ly Quark users. Either they did­n’t know about this, or they are hold­ing out on me.

    Thanks

  82. Avg. Joe Prepress

    Yes, Quark Sucks but don’t be wait­ing for a bet­ter ver­sion to come out. Quark has­n’t been right since v3.32 on the Mac. 5 was­n’t bad but I’ve been in a pre­press env­i­ron. for years and InDesign is now the choice even for our cus­tomers. Many have switched over the past 2–3 years after being told to buy Quark if they want to ‘stay cur­rent’ with lead­ing trends. Quark has part­ed ways with real­i­ty and (at the risk of sound­ing pro-Adobe) a Creative Suite pack­age costs a bit less than just Quark alone. It’s a no-brainer why any­one would switch to InDesign. I have worked for YEARS with both and even the trade schools are switch­ing, rec­og­niz­ing the trend for multi-platform, uni­ver­sal recog­ni­tion of Adobe prod­ucts. Even if I’m an old user, I still know enough to change when necessary.
    p.s. Quark Sucks 

  83. Dr Design

    I am here to announce, even in 2007, Quark sucks the excre­ment of the lowli­est bottom-dwellers in the sea. If you don’t have InDesign, GET IT.… Bye bye QUIRK!!!

  84. Print Center Man (with my cape on, of course)

    Sure both pro­grams have their down­side, or rea­sons they suck, how­ev­er you want to put it, but you still can’t beat Quark for it’s ease of use when it comes to images. Placing images, updat­ing links in cus­tomer sup­plied files, copy and paste an image from one file to anoth­er – Quark still rules. I out­put ID files all day and gang the low res ver­sions of the pages into a Quark page to out­put proofs because its eas­i­er. Sit next to me and see who can do it faster‑I can in Quark. Why does­n’t ID have a save set­tings but­ton in the print dia­log box?

  85. Brian

    Quark Sucks!

    I have been putting off an inevitable switch to InDesign. After 12 years, I have had it with Quark. I am soooooooooo done.

    My moment of clar­i­ty came when my new intel mac run­ning quark 6.52 refused to work with my ver­sion of Myriad (Multiple Master), which is my com­pa­ny’s cor­po­rate font. I have tried all the known workarounds (turn­ing cer­tain exten­sions off, etc), but could not get the font to print. Bought the OpenType ver­sion of MyriadPro, but guess what–IT DIDN’T WORK EITHER. Now mind you, I have no oth­er issues with either ver­sion of this font from any oth­er pro­gram on this machine–only Quark. We don’t have the option of choos­ing anoth­er font.

    InDesign always prints the fonts with­out a problem. 

    InDesign does­n’t tell me my brand new Myriad font is “cor­rupt and will be sub­sti­tut­ed by courier”.

    InDesign won’t go into your fridge and drink all your beer (hey I know that’s a stretch, but don’t think those bey­atch­es at Quark haven’t tried).

    And with char­i­ta­ble pric­ing (we’re a non-profit) I can get the whole CS3 suite for less than just buy­ing quark (who does­n’t rec­og­nize our NP status).

    Quark–are you lis­ten­ing?? Just build a pro­gram that works! Why should your cus­tomers who spend the $900+ on your prod­uct be forced to come up with workarounds to make it work? I am just one of many peo­ple who use your prod­uct that will not be upgrad­ing. You lost me for good!

    By the way, I have been told by some peo­ple that I need to try Quark 7, because it’s vast­ly improved. My response to that state­ment can­not be print­ed on this forum.

    QUARK SUCKS!!!!!

  86. John Barr

    I have used Quark sine v3 and ID since v1 in a print/prepress envi­ron­ment for many dif­fer­ent printshops. 

    Up until recent­ly, V7, both or worked and pro­vid­ed out­put in pre­dictable form. Now that quack 7 came on the scene try­ing to copy the per­fec­tion of ID, final­ly put the nail in the cof­fin. I run a mac pro dual 2.66/6gbram and v7.1 will take 10–20 times the amount of time to pro­duce press qual­i­ty pdfs if those new trans­paren­cy fea­tures are used any­where in the document.

    I am not a design­er or pro­duc­tion artist, I FIX what they do wrong, and they do a lot of wrong things so this speed hit is total­ly unacceptable.

    FWIW I know they say the V2 update shou­uld fix this prob­lem, but it should have nev­er came about.

    john

  87. Craig

    The only rea­son i can see why peo­ple think one or the oth­er pro­gram sucks is: ignorance…

    Both pro­grams have their indi­vid­ual strong points and fea­tures, but if the past decade has taught any­one in this indus­try any­thing, its this: the world is big enough for both pro­grams. And the lim­it­ed gurus who are among my skill lev­el are hope­ful­ly begin­ning to real­ize Adobe is a mon­ey hun­gry machine now. Frankly im tired of pay­ing Adobe’s crew for the min­i­mal upgrades, to stay in tune with over­payed designers.
    Quark’s always been bugged on new releas­es, but they are usu­al­ly tol­er­a­ble and tend to get cor­rect­ed prompt­ly. So?
    In my busi­ness, im fix­ing all the design­ers mis­takes, and you all make plen­ty. Thanks for keep­ing us pre­press technicians/software oper­a­tors in business. 

    Craig in Memphis

  88. shred

    Made the switch to ID about two years ago. It is NOT the DTP sav­iour it is made out to be here. At all. Some slick fea­tures and some fea­tures that teeter on the edge of idiocy.

    Why does Adobe insist on cre­at­ing effects we KNOW won’t work on press? Well, because the code is writ­ten by 20-somethings who have no expe­ri­ence with typog­ra­phy or the press. The web is their print­ing press. History and expe­ri­ence is for old farts…

    Went to a CS3 launch sem­i­nar just this week. Asked the Adobe rep the above ques­tion. His response was to the effect of… we give you the guns and the bul­lets, you pull the trig­ger yourself.

    We are not responsible…

    Sounds like a very old Quark com­ment to me.

    5 years from now when Adobe OWNS the DTP com­mu­ni­ty – if they don’t already, we may wish their com­pe­ti­tion did­n’t go away after all. The new Microsoft.

  89. Pariah S. Burke Post author

    Why does Adobe insist on cre­at­ing effects we KNOW won’t work on press?

    What effects do you KNOW wont’ work on press, Shred? All those effects in CS2 and CS3, the trans­paren­cy, the Photoshop-esque effects, they print. I can per­son­al­ly attest to that. I’ve been using InDesign CS3 for a year now, out­putting mate­ri­als to print (film and digital-to-press) with­out a problem.

  90. peacekeeper

    Quark dose not Suck . Folks,Have any of you ever used Micrsoft prod­ucts if yes enough said. Try print­ing with Publisher . Indesign was still run­ning an OS 9 frame­work though CS 2 . Humm mod­ern apla­ca­tion i guess. Indesign was based on 80% of the fea­tures of XPress . Adobe must have thought it was a good pro­gram to copy 80% of it. So big­ger ques­tion is this. Well Quark be around? After read­ing this forum i see a num­ber posts say­ing Quark going away for years now peo­ple keep say­ing that. They have invest­ed in change and they are still here. Building more soft­ware tools and updat­ing old tools like QPS . Folks, there are mil­lions of soft­ware users out there and if Quark sold only a few hun­derd thou­sand copies they would still prof­itable . At one point i heard many years ago their were over 3 mil­lion users. of XPress 4 so even if they lost half there mar­ket that still a large num­ber. And remem­ber there a pri­vate soft­ware com­pa­ny . I hope there there around for a long time . 

    PS . The world is using both and you are more mar­ketable using both , the more you know the more mon­ey you make ?

  91. Mjenius

    To Shred:
    No, the web is not their print­ing press. It pains me to even look at Adobe Golive. And I hope you’re not sug­gest­ing using Indesign for web. It may come in handy if you have a lay­out you want to export or inte­grate to web, but to say that Indesign is geared more for web is just sil­ly. In fact, what do you have to say about Quark Interactive design­er? And yes, his­to­ry and expe­ri­ence does count. At least for those who are seri­ous about their dis­ci­pline. I work with a for­mer type­set­ter and I always ask for advice. I’ve gone through my share of typog­ra­phy, print­mak­ing, and cal­lig­ra­phy in my pro­gram. I’d like to think that today’s design­er do respect his­to­ry and expe­ri­ence. But some­times it does­n’t seem that way because we are just mov­ing for­ward at a faster pace. We have to keep pro­gress­ing. Or do you sug­gest we go back to using lino­type? or maybe even the mov­able type?

  92. shred

    How about a spot col­or in a process job using trans­paren­cy? That is a very real scenario.

  93. shred

    One last com­ment here. Most InDesign cham­pi­ons have invest­ed about 5 years becom­ing an expert with­in that app.

    Trying invest­ing 15 – 18 years of expe­ri­ence and then chuck­ing it because of indus­try ‘trends’. I state this because XPress, for bet­ter or worse still works. And yes, even­tu­al­ly some­thing will come along and blow InDesign out of the water. You, the user, will be forced to to dump the equi­ty in your exper­tise and start again.

    InDesign is tar­get­ed at what you see on screen – not on press. XPress was/is press­cen­tric. Ink and paper.

    Just because Adobe insists you need a new upgrade, does­n’t mean you should have to relearn the entire con­cept of post­script and printing.

    The waters have nev­er been mud­di­er in terms of what file for­mats to use with InDesign, col­or man­age­ment, font man­age­ment are all big ques­tion marks – big­ger ques­tion marks than they were in 1995.

    Progress for the sake of progress?
    I want to con­cen­trate on design and cre­ative, not read­ing man­u­als and blogs about HOW to get the soft­ware to play along. 

    Software is a tool, not the solu­tion. In my pro­fes­sion­al life, I have found the soft­ware more specif­i­cal­ly, the Creative Suite con­cept is once again lead­ing me around by the nose.

  94. Mjenius

    Now I see your point. I agree that it can get frus­trat­ing. I make it a point to set aside a few hours every week to train on soft­ware. I know that if I stop for awhile I’ll just fall behind. Let’s face it there are tons of soft­ware out there and they keep adding new fea­tures. Also expec­ta­tions for design­ers are steadi­ly increas­ing. I also notice a trend of tak­ing too many short­cuts. I think this is prob­a­bly the biggest cul­prit of the cur­rent “lack of knowl­edge”. It seems like the surge of inter­est in design­ers has cre­at­ed a neg­a­tive effect on pro­duc­tion artist. Just because design­ers can do many things does­n’t mean that they should. It’s one thing for a small com­pa­ny with lim­it­ed resources, but it’s a shame that even some for­tune 500 com­pa­nies are adopt­ing this prac­tice. I don’t think that the soft­ware is at fault, but rather the cur­rent trend of the indus­try that is shap­ing many of the young design­ers. I would­n’t be sur­prised if in 10 years we’ll have a short­age of real good, hard­core pro­duc­tion artists.

  95. Paul Chernoff

    I real­ly do not under­stand the last com­ment. We switched from QuarkXPress 6.5 to InDesign CS2 a year ago January. We use it for our glossy mag­a­zine. QXP was NOT work­ing for us. Well, we were get­ting our mag­a­zine out, but we were con­stant­ly hin­dered by QXP inef­fi­cien­cies. After our first issue in ID our art dept was more effi­cient than in QXP.

    I do not under­stand why file formts and col­or man­age­ment and font man­age­ment are big ques­tions marks for you. We nev­er had prob­lems in those areas.

    One key for use was to set up a PDF work­flow when we used QXP 4. Once we did that we were in posi­tion to work with any pro­gram to make files for our printer.

  96. Diabolique

    Has design real­ly got bet­ter since Indesign’s intro­duc­tion? I see more drop shad­ows in print than in a bad Stephen King movie. Indesign is a good pro­gram, but the strength of Quark is its sim­ple lay­out. Its the eas­i­est pro­gram in the world to learn. A child could be taught to use it in a day. And thats some­thing that Indesign has not been able to accom­plish with its mul­ti­ple pal­lets and con­tex­tu­al menus. Quark’s pric­ing, how­ev­er, reeks of arro­gance, but there should always be strong com­pe­ti­tion. Or else Adobe will become the next Quark, if they arent already.

  97. Mjenius

    The rea­son design (Hollywood any­one?) is falling through the cracks is not because of any par­tic­u­lar pro­gram. But because they let the pro­gram dic­tate the design. Your design should­n’t mat­ter whether you’re using Quark or Indesign. Programs are noth­ing more than tools for us to uti­lize. Like a car­pen­ter’s ham­mer. Which is why seri­ous design­ers should know how to sketch.

    Overall I don’t think this is an issue with seri­ous design­ers. It’s prob­a­bly become more notice­able because there’s many so called “design­ers” that just know how to use the pro­gram but are not real­ly design­ing. Although, I think logo design has reached a low point. But again, this is most like­ly due to the same rea­son. If I see one more chrome logo I’m going to be sick.

  98. shred

    Mjenius,

    You are soooooo cor­rect. Adobe feels they can make a design­er out of the recep­tion­ist – just make the ‘effects’ easy to access and you are off to the races…

  99. Mjenius

    Maybe that explains some of those odd job listings:

    HEADLINE – Graphic Designer

    DESCRIPTION – Answering phone, cus­tomer ser­vice, assist with pay­roll, data entry, atten­tion to detail, goal ori­ent­ed. Must know MS Office, Photoshop and Illustrator, FLash a plus. Also high­ly pre­ferred if you know how to oper­ate a forklift.

    LOL, chrome logo anyone?

  100. Pariah S. Burke Post author

    DESCRIPTION – Answering phone, cus­tomer ser­vice, assist with pay­roll, data entry, atten­tion to detail, goal ori­ent­ed. Must know MS Office, Photoshop and Illustrator, FLash a plus. Also high­ly pre­ferred if you know how to oper­ate a forklift.

    LOL I’m qual­i­fied for that job!

  101. Paul Chernoff

    I have a good exam­ple about how using InDesign made a design­er more pro­duc­tive today.

    She got the text from the edi­tor. It was a list of muse­ums. The only man­u­al part was going to each muse­um name and then replac­ing the “; ” with a para­graph return (in CS3 I think I could have auto­mat­ed this action). So now we have an arti­cle and the para­graphs fol­low this pattern:
    ‑Museum name
    ‑Museum location
    ‑Museum description

    She then did a search and replace to apply a char­ac­ter style to all ital­i­cized text. She then cre­at­ed a para­graph style for each type of paragraph.

    Then she select­ed all of the text to apply para­graph style using next para­graph style option. The cor­rect style was auto­mat­i­cal­ly applied to each para­graph in the article.

    She then did a Find and Replace to find all semi-colons in the para­graphs marked as muse­um loca­tion and to replace them with ” |” with the prop­er char­ac­ter style applied.

    I haven’t tried doing some­thing like with with QXP 7.2, but I haven’t been able to do some­thing like this with QXP 6.5 and earlier. 

    Note that the above did not depend on drop shad­ows or any eye-candy, just basic mechan­ics for get­ting things done. My design­er will now have more time to do design work (by work­ing with the style sheets) than if she had to do all of the above by hand.

  102. Mjenius

    Pariah-
    You got the job! I failed the fork­lift require­ment. Too bad Lynda​.com does­n’t offer fork­lift 101 tuto­ri­als, lol.

    Paul-
    Yeah, I’m still amazed at how many design­ers do not take advan­tage of auto­mat­ed actions in Adobe prod­ucts. I can’t say enough about automa­tion, batch­ing, and droplets. It saves me from insan­i­ty! Or, it saves the poor interns from insanity!

  103. Rob

    Since this seems to be one of the more active post­ings, I thought I’d ask a few ques­tion of you folks …

    Our office is think­ing of mak­ing the switch from Quark to Indesign (and mac to PC for that matter).

    With that, a few questions:

    - As it is now, our office must use both Macs and PCs (yes odd I know, but just go with it), ff we con­tin­ue to use both and would like to install Quark or Indesign on BOTH sys­tems, would we be able to move back and forth on the same doc­u­ment between the systems?

    - What about trans­fer­ring all of our old Quark doc­u­ments into Indesign, can that be done? Or if we do swith to sole­ly PCs, could we trans­fer a Mac quark doc­u­ment to a PC quark document?

    Any respons­es would be great­ly appre­ci­at­ed. Thanks!

  104. Mjenius

    Rob, it all depends on how many users there are and how well they know Indesign. If they are most­ly new to Indesign, expect a lot of pain and frus­tra­tion. Make sure that every­one is com­mit­ted to make the switch because some find it very hard to repro­gram their ten­den­cies. You can get third par­ty soft­ware like Markzware that con­verts files. I’m not sure if CS3 lets you import Quark files. I per­son­al­ly pre­fer to use Quark for Quark files and use Indesign for Indesign files rather than con­vert­ing them because depend­ing on how the file was put togeth­er, it’s nev­er per­fect. Your biggest issue will prob­a­bly be fonts. Going back and forth between Mac and PC will prob­a­bly dri­ve you nuts when it comes to fonts. I’m assum­ing that you’re cur­rent­ly using mac fonts. Not sure if there are 3rd par­ty soft­ware to cur­tail this, but it’d worth it to look around. Colors will prob­a­bly be anoth­er issue, unless you spend the mon­ey to have them cal­i­brat­ed. Having said that, I’m not a pro on the sub­ject. I gave up design­ing on PC for awhile. I used to use both Mac and PC before, but since OSX Tiger came out I only use my PC for gam­ing. The only part that gets upgrad­ed in the PC is the graph­ics card, lol.

  105. Joker

    Quark nev­er used to suck. But now…

    [To begin, I have to say that some of the ear­ly com­ments on this page are use­less – it’s only about half-way down that we get some con­struc­tive arguments.]

    I’ve been in graph­ic design and pre-press for close to 15 years now, and Quark Xpress was my best friend – it actu­al­ly focussed on the impor­tant aspects of type­set­ting, such as lead­ing and para­graphs. It was so sim­ple, pro­fes­sion­al and unclut­tered that only about 12 months ago did I make the change from Quark 4.1 (in Classic) to the “new” Quark 6.2.

    What a ter­ri­ble shame. Instead of strength­en­ing the impor­tant ‘old-school’ abil­i­ties of the pro­gram, they instead tried to make it a com­plete ‘even sec­re­taries can use it’ design pack­age, includ­ing web design. I think this is what made them lose their way.

    And for this rea­son, I did­n’t like InDesign either. It’s too easy for any old joe to make a semi-professional look­ing design… even though a doc­u­ment is only as good as the design­er. And there’s the prob­lem, as some­one else point­ed out ear­li­er – the old school design­ers (of which I class myself as, not to the point of stick­ing with Quark for the sake of it though!) are prob­a­bly a dying breed. It’s sad that the new-wave design­ers prob­a­bly have no idea about lead­ing, kern­ing, trap­ping, bleeds, etc…

    Anyway, to wrap this wan­der­ing com­ment up, I’ll say that I hope Quark finds its feet again, since we do need com­pe­ti­tion in the indus­try… but until then, I’ll begrudg­ing­ly teach myself InDesign and wish that it had half the pro­fes­sion­al, old-school type tools that Quark has. And eas­i­er colour and object managing.

    I hope Quark won’t always suck.

  106. Geordiepom

    I am fas­ci­nat­ed by this page. Many years ago I used to teach QuarkXpress at a uni­ver­si­ty, a col­lege and in the pri­vate sec­tor. Beause it was so user-unfriendly I was kept very busy.

    At the time the only real com­pe­ti­tion I can remem­ber was Pagemaker which very few design hous­es used. Consequently graph­ics cours­es were forced to use Quark. So you’d think they’d acknowl­edge this fact with edu­ca­tion­al pric­ing and support.
    Wrong.
    Price con­ces­sions were pathet­ic to non-existant and to this day I have yet to find a com­pa­ny with more arro­gant and igno­rant cus­tomer support.

    In the ear­ly days of CAD I remem­ber Autodesk almost gave away AutoCAD to some col­leges. So when stu­dents grad­u­at­ed, com­pa­nies get­ting into CAD for the first time would buy the full price soft­ware know­ing they could find oper­a­tors. I wish Adobe would do some­thing like this with InD and fin­ish off Quark for good.

    Looks like noth­ing has changed with Quark over the years. I thank good­ness I’m not involved in pre-press any longer.

    Perhaps we should have a word with Mr. Adobe. He could do to Quark what he did to my beloved Freehand (sobs).

  107. Spagolli

    Joker – do you hon­est­ly think you can’t adjust lead­ing and kern­ing in ID?? I hear this a lot from switch­ers. “InDesign can’t do X, Y and Z.” I always point out that they SHOULD be say­ing, “I don’t know how to do X, Y, and Z using InDesign.”

    The fact of the mat­ter is, yes, InDesign can do X, Y and Z AND for the most part do it bet­ter and with less steps than QXP.

    Us “new-school” design­er embrace tech­nol­o­gy. When some­thing bet­ter comes out, we learn it and use it to our advan­tage. Don’t bash soft­ware because you don’t feel like learn­ing some­thing new.

  108. Paul

    Quark is beau­ti­ful! It is so easy to cre­ate and pub­lish. I’ve been using it since it first came around and it only gets better.
    As for InDesign, I guess the folks who loved page­mak­er and Illustrater might love it, but I find it to be a piece of shit.
    I aint talk­ing about doing a one page fly­er but has any­body tried to cre­ate a 32 page mag­a­zine with InDesign? It’s almost impossible!

  109. Mjenius

    @ Paul,
    OK, so you like Quark and that is fine by every­one. Also, you dis­like InDesign and that is fine by every­one as well. But by say­ing that it’s almost impos­si­ble to cre­ate a 32 page mag­a­zine with InDesign you’re just dis­cred­it­ing yourself.

  110. Paul Chernoff

    Uh, Paul, we use InDesign to pro­duce a 200+ page mag­a­zine every month and we love it. We used to lay it out in QuarkXPress. I do not think my design­ers would switch back.

  111. Joker

    You might want to re-read my com­ment, Spagolli. I nev­er said that InDesign CAN’T do those things, and I con­ced­ed that I’d need to learn more about it (I’d only used it spar­ing­ly when I made my orig­i­nal comment).
    In the mean­time I’ve found all the fea­tures in ID that I used in Quark, but in some cas­es I still find them more time-consuming than the old­er Quark methods.

    Far from bash­ing ID, I admit­ted that it will prob­a­bly become the new indus­try leader – I just found it to be a lit­tle ‘bloat­ed’ with fea­tures that I found unnec­es­sary when com­pared to a old­er, sta­ble ver­sion of Quark.

    I no longer ‘dis­like’ InDesign, but I still stand by my orig­i­nal point – it’s a shame that Quark is no longer what it used to be.

  112. John Smith

    Four Funerals and a Wedding…

    A fun­ny note from an exec­u­tive insid­er at Quark. While employ­ees are jump­ing ship left and right includ­ing Quark’s CFO, two key Marketing Directors, and even their well-loved recep­tion­ist of many years, you can still find love with­in the walls of Quark HQ. After a secret six month courtship, Quark Senior Marketing VP Terry Welty has pro­posed mar­riage to infa­mous Quarkalliance diva, Cyndie Shaffstall. Even though his divorce is still pend­ing he announced to senior man­age­ment that he’s found the woman of his dreams. It’s com­fort­ing to know that even a dys­func­tion­al com­pa­ny such as Quark, love can prevail.

    VJ

  113. Cyndie Shaffstall

    Your infor­ma­tion is woe­ful­ly incorrect.

  114. Matt F.

    The biggest rea­son I hate Quark is that they REFUSE to include the 9‑point posi­tion ref­er­ence grid that has always been a part of Illustrator and Indesign. I find this tool absolute­ly indis­pens­able for set­ting the piv­ot point on a graph­ic or text box when enlarg­ing, reduc­ing, etc. How can any­body work with­out that tool???? It blows me away. I post­ed that ques­tion on a quark forum 2–3 years ago and nobody had a rea­son­able objec­tion to my post. One user said “Useless tool–ignore this rant, Quark.” Useless my eye! Another user said “Well, I go up to this menu and choose this option and then (blah, blah, blah)…” some con­vo­lut­ed half-assed way of per­form­ing the same task that just did­n’t cut it. The point is that Quark is too proud to real­ize the val­ue of a soft­ware tool if their arch­en­e­my Adobe invents it, and rather than inte­grate it into their own pro­gram in order to help keep com­pet­i­tive, they mere­ly stand there and ignore it, like some proud cap­tain stand­ing on the deck with his nose in the air while his bombed ship is SINKING! Quark is too embed­ded in the indus­try to lose its cus­tomer base any­time soon–all the major pub­lish­ers prob­a­bly still use it and would have to suf­fer a lot of time and mon­ey in order to just switch over to InDesign. And maybe it is often bet­ter in areas like month­ly mag­a­zine lay­out files and such. But InDesign is still my choice for work­ing with Photoshop and Illustrator on a reg­u­lar basis. Quark–ugh!

  115. Angela

    I have been ID user from the begin­ning. It is a very good sol­id soft­ware. Can’t say I have had any prob­lems. Recently I was forced to adopt Quark 7.31 it does­n’t sep­a­rate files prop­er­ly and it tru­ly sucks. The sup­port at Quark is Nil. Quark deserves to die. 

  116. Dallas

    Oh my god, i just start­ed using quark again after 7 years of not using it, and amaz­ing­ly, it is even worse than i remember.

    I need a new job (that does­n’t require use of Quark)

  117. Mr. I WANT MY EIGHT HUNDRED DOLLARS BACK!

    boy did i get bam­boo­zled by Quark and the apple store.

    I just bought a new Intel/imac run­ning leop­ard 10.5 to find out Quark 7 is the only version
    that will run in leop­ard and the ass­holes at the apple store said it would run fine with a free 7.3.1 upgrade form Quark web site.

    THIS IS TOTAL BULLSHIT!!!!!!!!

    IT DOSE NOT RETAIN THE HIGH-RES PREVIEW SETTING!!!!

    and this is a big prob­lem designers.

    I can not sit down with my client to do changes
    on his 50 page cat­a­log with over 1000 images
    and have it open up with all LOW-RES crappy
    look­ing images.. i am installing inde­sign now!

  118. RODIN

    Okay. I will say this. ID is an amaz­ing tool for design­ers and the pub­lish­ing world alike. Very accu­rate, awe­some pre­views, the whole bit.

    It’s just too bad it takes twice as long to pro­duce some­thing in ID than it does in Quark.

    And guess what? If I want­ed to use Aldus PageMaker all over again I would use ID CS3.

    Great pro­gram, needs an 8‑core min­i­mum with 16 gigs of RAM.

    For those of you too young to know Adobe is going the way of Corel DRAW; too many fea­tures for one pro­gram to do effec­tive­ly. Granted, at least in ID every­thing works.

    Adobe should come out with its own OS…

  119. Paul Chernoff

    >It’s just too bad it takes twice as long to pro­duce some­thing in ID than it does in Quark

    Our expe­ri­ence is the oppo­site. Our pro­duc­tiv­i­ty improved after mov­ing from QXP 6.5 to ID CS2 (we are now on CS3).

  120. Anonymous

    we’ve been using InDesign and K4 for the past 3 years and are now look­ing at switch­ing to QPS, we where promised so many things to switch and less than 30% have been deliv­ered after 3 years, our oth­er titles are on QPS and are pro­duc­ing every­thing quick­er even there web xml feeds. InCopy and K4 are just to slow with InDesign

  121. Carlito

    In my 15 + years of post-college design­ing, I’ve nev­er used a slow­er, clunki­er, more crash-prone, gimick-laden piece of soft­ware in my life. I’m equal­ly amazed at how poor­ly graphics/elements from oth­er Adobe pro­grams trans­late when imported/pasted…especially from Illustrator. And last I remem­ber, Illustrator was an Adobe product. 

    I don’t care how bad Quarks cus­tomer ser­vice is…I can’t remem­ber the last time I had to call them…either way, I don’t depend on any­one’s cus­tomer service. 

    It seems design­ers got all gid­dy over InDesign for one main reason…it said Adobe on the box…dang fol­low­ers. InDesign may have “arrived,” but in the form of a sput­ter­ing Pinto with a dif­fer­ent name and a CD player. 

    -Carlito

  122. Dave

    Stick with 6.5 ver­sion … 7.0 Quark SUCKS.…. takes 80 sec­onds to open a file? what the hell? also noth­ing but errors when send­ing files to mt Harliquin RIP!

  123. Andrei

    Let’s start a peti­tion or some­thing to help the damn thing die already. I have to work again (last time was in 2004) in fuck­ing Quark. It sucks more than words can say. I swear it’s my last project in Quark. I will refuse projects in Quark even if it means I’ll lose money!!

  124. mjenius

    We upgrad­ed our Macs to OSX 10.5, we orig­i­nal­ly want­ed to upgrade to 10.4 but we at the time Apple stopped sell­ing Tiger. Quark told us that our ver­sion 6.5 will not get a Leopard patch, so we should get Quark 7. We need Quark because we still have some of our old­er stuff in Quark and since 6.5 would have issues in the new OS we sac­ri­ficed a few things to get Quark 7 it in our bud­get. Obviously we noticed some issues (not to say that InDesign CS3 has it’s set of issues as well). When we con­tact­ed Quark ser­vice, they real­ly tried to help us. I must say that they have improved a lot as far as cus­tomer ser­vice goes. But here’s the weird part, at some point they said that our prob­lem may be Leopard relat­ed and they can’t fig­ure it out because tech sup­port is only run­ning Tiger!!! And this was com­ing from the super. Are you kid­ding me? Does any­one know if this is true or was this guy just try­ing to get rid of us?

  125. Dallas of the Hill People

    Ok, so i’ve been re-learning Quark (V 7.1 pass­port edi­tion) for the last few months as i make this cat­a­log. Here is my take on a new user’s expe­ri­ence with this software:

    first thing i noticed, was that when i print some­thing, it does­n’t look like it did on the screen. I don’t just mean the col­ors either, pic­tures get chopped off, char­ac­ters show up out of nowhere etc. 

    The next i notice is that the damn thing crash­es if you look at it the wrong way. i start­ed to keep a log of the crash­es and in one week i had over 70!

    This is quite pos­si­bly the worst pro­gram i have ever been forced to use. Don’t buy it!

  126. Subadai

    Im all for a peti­tion to end Xpress right now, lets get some legis­tature passed to dis­al­low the use of it.

  127. ND

    If there’s a peti­tion, I’m in. I also think they should intro­duce the death sen­tence for any pr*ck who says that Adobe’s prod­ucts are infe­ri­or just because the name Adobe means “mud hut”, or what­ev­er. What’s wrong with these peo­ple? Have the years of using XPress left them with the intel­lect of a bunch of 5‑year-olds?

  128. Glenboid

    Well Quark seem to be alive and well, and still devel­op­ing, Quark 8 announced today!

    Looks very inter­est­ing, well worth a look… and I for one think it’s a great thing that there are 2 DTP apps out there!

    Freehand is no more despite there being a huge user base!

  129. Normap

    I don’t hate it, I“m get­ting frus­trat­ed with it. I’ve only start­ed using this pro­gram after MANY years of not touch­ing it. It seems pret­ty much the same But I am hav­ing the worst time in get­ting the text runaround done prop­er­ly. I’m at the point now where I just can’t work with this crap and go back to Indesign!

    Is there a tuto­r­i­al on HOW TO DO TEXT RUNAROUND some­where out there?? 

    I’m get­ting desperate!

  130. pavlo s

    Quark does suck… and I used to be a Quark fan­boy from 1990. 

    I worked as a senior graph­ic design­er at a major University. I lived and breathed Quark. We used Quark and it was fine (in the 90’s), except when some­thing went wrong and you need­ed cus­tomer ser­vice… Quark ser­vice sucked big time! 

    Never again will I be sub­ject to their ‘cus­tomer service’. 

    But let’s hope Quark does­n’t die com­plete­ly: Adobe Indesign needs a bit of com­pe­ti­tion to keep them on their toes or they might become com­pla­cent like Quark did! (I hope not).

  131. Gifted

    I have used both Quark and Indesign in and out of sev­er­al Jobs for the last 7 odd years.

    In my sum­ma­ry I thought Quark 6 was far to basic and dat­ed to com­pete with Indesign.
    Quark 7 was a vast improve­ment but still did­n’t cut it for me with the fea­tures of Indesign.

    However I have been using Quark 8 now for the last 3 weeks and have been total­ly bowled over by it.
    The tools are on anoth­er lev­el and bar a cou­ple of small tweeks I would be hap­py to say its a far, far bet­ter prod­uct than Indesign CS3.

    Stable, intu­itive and actu­al­ly fun to use (for a change).

  132. Hernan

    Ouuuh men!! thanks for let me say to the world that:

    I FUCKING HATE QUARKXPRESS!!!! This stu­pid pro­gram SUCKSSS!! Especially the ver­sion 7 and high… and my life is a fuck­ing night­mare because I have to work every­day with this stu­pid pro­gram!! it crush all the fuck­ing time!! is some­day I know a pro­gram­mer of QuarkXpress I kick his ass.

  133. Kurt

    So can any­one com­ment the Quark 8 vs Indd CS4??

    Although i enjoy bet­ter work­ing on Indesign.. i must admit that both pro­grams have their strenghts and weaknesses.

    I know its a crazy mans wish but.. why cant they embed con­ver­sion for oppos­ing pro­grams?? It would make my life (and many oth­ers) so much easy­er… and it would­nt change my choice.

    But its still nice to know what Im miss­ing while using CS4.

  134. SandorB

    Quark got so much right, first time. InDesign users should see how quick­ly an expe­ri­enced pro can design superb lay­outs, and then knock the stuff out in Quark – InDesign is cumerb­some, and does­n’t even approach Ventura from ten years ago for long docs – Creative Suite is just a racket.

  135. Sam

    I’ve been work­ing with InDesign for about 3 years start­ing in CS through CS3. I’ve also worked in Quark for 3 years (Quark 5–7) pre­vi­ous and simul­ta­ne­ous­ly with InDesign. Personally, I’ve come to love InDesign.

    After just start­ing a new job, anoth­er design­er and I have an option of upgrad­ing to Quark 8 or mak­ing the switch to InDesign CS4. The oth­er design­er has been hap­py using Quark for 10+ years. Here’s the question…Has any­one used Quark 8 and a recent InDesign to give a decent comparision?

  136. Paul Chernoff

    How do you work. InDeisgn is much more pow­er­ful than QuarkXPress 8 when it comes to stylesheets (para­graph, char­ac­ter, object) and mas­ter pages. Our edi­to­r­i­al design­ers nev­er want to see QuarkXPress again, but our ad design­ers pre­fer QuarkXPress; this may reflect dif­fer­ences in how they work or iner­tia or the fact that they have to deal with ads that come in all sorts of files and nev­er got a chance to learn ID as well as the edi­to­r­i­al folk.

    Another issue is whether some­one mov­ing from QXP to ID is will­ing to learn the ID way of doing things. If you keep treat­ing ID as if it were QXP you will be unhappy.

  137. Baumhus

    I was using QXP pro­fes­sion­al­ly since 1989 (US-vs. 1.1). I was an (inof­fi­cial) Evangelist, Trainer, all time friend of QXP. Later on, 2005, I as forced to switch to ID (vs. 4, 5, 6). After these years I only feel sad­ness about QXP – and I see very, very clear signs that Quark Inc. will not sur­vive. Sadness because to touch this pro­gramm (vs. 8) feels like touch­ing some­thing of the very far past: out­dat­ed, in no way sexy, in no way real­ly user­friend­ly – Brrrrrrrr! I know these feel­ings very well: The same feel­ings I got in the 90s used to the Macintosh UI and look­ing into some­thing like “Windows”. And I have an absolute KILLER ARGUMENT: Put your cur­sor in any of Quarks entrance fields. Hit the arrow keys: No reac­tion at all. You have to type in every val­ue by hand! Hey, Quarks: Are you one beer short of a six-pack? Do you have lost your mar­bles? Could it be that you do not have both oars in the water? For those who still do not know Adobe prod­ucts incl. ID: Here the val­ues are chang­ing in one-unit-steps: 1 pt, 2 pt, 3 pt, or Myriad, Myriad Pro, or 1%, 2%, 3%: scrolling through val­ues. So sim­ple. So nat­ur­al. So self evident.
    Mark F. wrote here one year ago (Dec 28th):
    “The point is that Quark is too proud to real­ize the val­ue of a soft­ware tool if their arch­en­e­my Adobe invents it, and rather than inte­grate it into their own pro­gram in order to help keep com­pet­i­tive, they mere­ly stand there and ignore it, like some proud cap­tain stand­ing on the deck with his nose in the air while his bombed ship is SINKING!”
    That’s the point, exact­ly that’s it. And there is a sim­ple word for such a behav­iour: stu­pid­i­ty, fool­ish­ness of those who are run­ning this com­pa­ny. They do not know their job.
    Period.
    Party is over. Final stroke.
    Quark has no right to survive.

  138. Claidheamdanns

    I used to like Quark. I’ve used it for years, both at work and at home.

    Now I hate it. In fact I’ve come to loathe it more and more. I took it com­plete­ly off my sys­tem at home, and got a 3rd par­ty plu­g­in (http://​markzware​.com) to con­vert all my Quark docs to InDesign CS3.

    At work, we are still so back­ward that we use Quark, when even com­pa­nies in Third World coun­tries are switch­ing over to InDesign. (While for them, this may be because you can actu­al­ly afford to buy the whole Creative Suites for as much as it costs to buy one lousy copy of Quark, this is still a good deci­sion on their part.

    Quark, you NEVER lis­tened to us the users. You could get away with this when the com­pe­ti­tion was PageMaker, but not any­more. InDesign is here and it’s time to shape up or ship out.

  139. Sam

    Thanks for the thoughts. We’ve just received our CS4 pack­age. The oth­er design­er is will­ing to learn and has done research on her own about what seems to be pre­ferred. InDesign is the hands-down winner.
    We uploaded both Quark 8 and InDesign CS4 tri­als and after she saw Quark 8, she felt like she’d have to learn so much over (from Quark 6) that she might as well make the switch to InDesign.

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